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Pushing the Gay Agenda

 
 
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 01:13 pm
What the heck is the "Gay Agenda" and why do people keep accusing me of pushing it? It is quite annoying and if they are going to sling these term, they should at least have the balls to define it.

I am a male who is married to a female (and my fertility will be expressed when my daugter is born is a couple of weeks).

So here is my Agenda.


1. I believe that in issues that don't hurt willing adult participants, the government and society at large should stay out, based on my Constitutional persuit of happiness.

2. In a public school, I don't want my kids taught to fear or even avoid things I don't find immoral. The religion and moral judgements of others have no business in a public institution.

3. Furthermore, In a pluralistic democracy I believe it is wrong for a majority to make policies that denigrate other minorities, be they religious minorities, cultural minorities, racial minorities or sexual preference.

4. I believe it is ridiculous for people who want to live in pluralistic democracy to expect to be protected from people who think differently than them. Children in a Democracy should be taught that there are homosexuals who, under our most sacred laws, are their equals. They can be taught that homosexuality is against their religion, but that is part of being religious.

Saying that teaching children that homosexuals exist, are people, and are their equals as human beings and citizens, somehow violates the rights of Christians goes against the very foundation of democracy.

5. Based on this, I think gay marriage is a necessary and inevitable right in a true pluralistic democracy. This right will be achieved as surely as slavery was ended and women were given the right to vote.

6. I also believe that public schools must treat differences (including religious differences) with respect. However, as they are institutions of a pluralistic democracies they most accept that homosexuals exist, even in their communities, and they must serve them, as they do with any part of the community, with respect. As this is an issue in our society, it should not be hidden from students. It is part of being an educated citizen.

7. I support free speech of all as part of a healthy public discourse. Christians and other have the right to teach that homosexuality is a sin. Homosexuals and others have the right to challenge this assertion. I trust that as has happened many times in our future, justice will prevail. The law and public instutitutions must act fairly to protect the rights of each groups.

The right to free speech is gaurenteed. The right to not have to hear is not. Using the "protect the children" argument to squelch an argument is cowardly and specious. I personally don't want my children to be protected from a debate that is democracy at its best. My kids know all about homosexual marriage (as it is a big issue here.


So please tell me. Is this the gay agenda?

If it is, than I support it whole-heartedly. But I call prefer to call it the "Freedom Agenda!"
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 8,965 • Replies: 140
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 01:15 pm
I've never seen you accused of pushing the Gay Agenda. Have i led a sheltered life?
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 01:18 pm
Can we just call it the EBrownP agenda, and can I sign on?




edit to fix your name - why have I been calling you EP for years? Confused
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 01:19 pm
I'm with you on that, ebrown. But I have heard the other perspective. I don't agree with it, but it goes something like this. "You are trying to get me to accept the gay lifestyle", or something to that effect. People who feel strongly about it seem to think that destigmatizing homosexuality somehow will prevent them from personally condemning it.

I say err on the side of freedom where it doesn't encroach on others'. And making someone uncomfortable is not my idea of encroaching on someone's freedom.
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 01:36 pm
The problem with that argument (with which you don't agree anyway) is meaning of the word "accept".

In one sense, "accepting" others is a requirement of living in a pluralistic democracy.

People have had to "accept" living with all sorts of people they have not approved of. People have had to accept interracial marriages, black people in their neighborhoods, women voting, women in their workplace, Irish immigrants, Mormons and Fundamentalist Christians.

I think democracy is a very good thing, and it is well worth the trouble of the challenge of living with people you don't agree with.

In the other sense, democracy doesn't mean you have to "accept" anyone.

In the Freedom agenda, you don't have to accept anyone. You are free to choose your own friends. You can teach your kids who they should avoid. You can boycott Disney and yell at teachers.

You can criticize freely, write hate literature, scream in school boards even wear a swatstika if you choose.


.... as long as you don't take away the rights of others.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 01:40 pm
Yes. I'm going to go look for a program I heard on NPR. There was a man from the Log Cabin Republicans at the Republican National Convention who was going around trying to get the ear of the bigwigs in the party to see what they'd be willing to do about gay marriage. The program followed him and the people he talked with. It was very interesting.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 02:32 pm
I found it. It was on This American Life, if you have time to download and listen to it, it's very interesting.

http://www.thislife.org/ The part I was talking about is Act 1 of the 9-10-04 episode. I just remembered why I like that show so much.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 03:04 pm
In another thread, 'krissie" states that in high school these days, "it is almost uncool to be straight".

Now, if that isn't indicative of a gay agenda being shoved upon our youth, I don't know what is.

Do you remember how much "being cool" matters when you're a teenager?

And a comment about your avatar. Peace through superior firepower.
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 03:14 pm
cjhsa wrote:
In another thread, 'krissie" states that in high school these days, "it is almost uncool to be straight".


A little San Fran hyperbole cj...you know how those SF people are :wink:
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 03:17 pm
When I read that, I honestly wanted to shoot my monitor. I'm sure there are several folks here who'd love it if I did.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 03:26 pm
CJ - she's one girl! In SF no less, if Panzade is right.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 03:28 pm
I've heard similar ruminations from my own kids. It's pretty disturbing as a parent.
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 03:29 pm
Now that's a different color of a horse/
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 03:30 pm
So, have your kids switched? I mean, what's the threat? My feeling is that it's a trend likely due to funny shows like Will and Grace than any gay agenda.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 04:03 pm
cjhsa wrote:
In another thread, 'krissie" states that in high school these days, "it is almost uncool to be straight".

Now, if that isn't indicative of a gay agenda being shoved upon our youth, I don't know what is.

Do you remember how much "being cool" matters when you're a teenager?

And a comment about your avatar. Peace through superior firepower.


I think that in high school these days, as in days past, it is cool to do things that are forbidden or frowned upon, like smoking, having sex, skipping school, driving too fast, etc...
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 04:25 pm
CJ,

I would like you to respond to my "Freedom Agenda" (outlined in my original post).

Is this what you would call a "gay agenda"?

Can you accept it?
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 04:55 pm
"Pushing the gay agenda" is what homophobic people call the discussion of not discriminating against gay people.


As for the "cool" thing - adolescents experiment with attitudes and mores - and experiment - always have, always will.

They have had the heterosexual agenda pushed on them all their lives - in almost everything they have seen and heard about sex and relationships.

And hey - what always amuses me about this kind of "they're trying to push homosexuality" drama is that the very people who get agitated about it, are also the ones who continue to claim, against all evidence, that homosexuality is unnatural.

Well - if heterosexuality is the only natural choice, why do you think kids can be "turned" so easily??????

ebrown - I really wouldn't worry - though I know it is unpleasant. Often the folk who come to threads about homosexuality are the people who are agitated about it.

I, for one, often avoid them, cos I know from experience how unpleasant and (to me) disgusting they get - in terms of the levels of prejudice and nastiness expressed.

I am sure many other reasonably unprejudiced folk do the same, so you get barraged by the anti-gay folk, maybe?
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 07:59 pm
WOW.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 08:04 pm
Sorry, but I see the same tactics being employed here that the democrats are taking in trying to win elections. Call the opponent every politically incorrect name in the book, and if that doesn't work, cheat.

WOW.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 08:23 pm
Yeah. Kind of like demonizing the opposition, labeling them, and whipping people into a frenzy by attaching an imaginary 'agenda' to their beliefs.
0 Replies
 
 

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