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Social Ecosystems and Chronic Disease

 
 
Reply Tue 9 Jan, 2018 10:42 pm

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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 1,762 • Replies: 42
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jan, 2018 05:28 am
@jerlands,
Isnt "Social Ecosystem" kinda like saying PIZZA PIE?
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jan, 2018 11:49 am
@farmerman,
yes, any social unit.
0 Replies
 
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jan, 2018 12:44 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Isnt "Social Ecosystem" kinda like saying PIZZA PIE?

I should mention the mediterranean diet is considered "healthy" but gluttony isn't. The health problems our abusive consumption of wheat is having on our society can't be overstated. Not to mention the problems with wheat in general. Our hybridizing the crop to be gluten rich and the fact commercial harvest spray with RoundUp for uniform die off simply exacerbate the inherent problems with grains.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jan, 2018 01:04 pm
@jerlands,
Human beings are healthier now than we ever have been in the past 20,000 years of history. Humans are living longer. Fewer humans are starving. Whole diseases that were deadly in the past are now curable.

There is no evidence that gluten sensitivity has anything to do with pest control or hybrid crops. Probably we just didn't recognize it because people were dying of polio, dysentery and starvation before we developed modern agriculture and medicine.

I suspect that modern diets are far less dependent on wheat then earlier cultures, particularly in the Mediterranean. We can now go to the local supermarket and get food from avacado's to lychee nuts flown in from every part of the world. Back then, except for the very wealthy, people ate the one or two things that were available and in season.

Any claim that humans today are less healthy than humans in past centuries is demonstrably false.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jan, 2018 01:08 pm
@maxdancona,
I was listening to the radio on my way back from Harrisburg and the discussion wqs about how our kids are not making it to adulthood 80 times greater than kids in the rest of the developed world, including Russia, kids are murdering each other.

As far as wheat, switch to whole grains even pasta and pizzza shells
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jan, 2018 01:14 pm
@farmerman,
I don't understand. Is wheat making kids murder each other... or are they murdering each other using wheat?

I guess that would make them cereal killers.

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maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jan, 2018 01:17 pm
I am refuting the idea that modern agriculture (hybridization and Round Up) is responsible for a decline in health between this generation, and previous generations.

The problem with this theory is that there hasn't been a decline in health... in fact health has improved. Comparing the US rate of violence with other countries is another topic.
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jan, 2018 01:31 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I am refuting the idea that modern agriculture (hybridization and Round Up) is responsible for a decline in health between this generation, and previous generations.

The problem with this theory is that there hasn't been a decline in health... in fact health has improved. Comparing the US rate of violence with other countries is another topic.



You're bassackwards. Kids today have a lower life expectancy than previous generations.
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jan, 2018 01:33 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

As far as wheat, switch to whole grains even pasta and pizzza shells


No... Anything refined is problematic in relation to how food affects the body. Today's wheat is not what it used to be. Think Glyphosate
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jan, 2018 01:33 pm
@jerlands,
Do you want to post the life expectancy from 100 years ago, 500 years ago, 1000 years ago?

We have literally doubled the natural human life expectancy (which until modern times was about 40 years).
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jan, 2018 01:36 pm
@jerlands,
Quote:
Anything refined is problematic in relation to how food affects the body


What does refined mean? Is grinding grain an example of refining? What about developing new strains of corn to feed your population.
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jan, 2018 01:41 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Do you want to post the life expectancy from 100 years ago, 500 years ago, 1000 years ago?


You don't understand health. Humans who endure hard lives without adequate resource and/or knowledge have lower life expectancy. Compare within two generations and kids today have a lower life expectancy.
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jan, 2018 01:42 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
Anything refined is problematic in relation to how food affects the body


What does refined mean? Is grinding grain an example of refining? What about developing new strains of corn to feed your population.



poor choice of words.. processed foods are a problem.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jan, 2018 01:47 pm
@jerlands,
Quote:
Compare within two generations and kids today have a lower life expectancy.


You are factually incorrect. Going back 80 years (more than two generations) shows you are wrong. Source: https://www.infoplease.com/life-expectancy-birth-race-and-sex-1930-2010

Quote:
All races White Black
Year Both sexes Male Female Both sexes Male Female Both sexes Male Female
2010 78.7 76.2 81.1 79.0 76.5 81.3 75.1 71.8 78.0
2007 77.9 75.4 80.4 78.4 75.9 80.8 73.6 70.0 76.8
2006 77.7 75.1 80.2 78.2 75.7 80.6 73.2 69.7 76.5
2005 77.8 75.2 80.4 78.3 75.7 80.8 73.2 69.5 76.5
20041 77.8 75.2 80.4 78.3 75.7 80.8 73.1 69.8 76.3
2003 77.5 74.8 80.1 78.0 75.3 80.5 72.7 69.0 76.1
2002 77.3 74.5 79.9 77.7 75.1 80.3 72.3 68.8 75.6
2001 77.2 74.4 79.8 77.7 75.0 80.2 72.2 68.6 75.5
2000 77.0 74.3 79.7 77.6 74.9 80.1 71.9 68.3 75.2
1999 76.7 73.9 79.4 77.3 74.6 79.9 71.4 67.8 74.7
1998 76.7 73.8 79.5 77.3 74.5 80.0 71.3 67.6 74.8
1997 76.5 73.6 79.4 77.2 74.3 79.9 71.1 67.2 74.7
1996 76.1 73.1 79.1 76.8 73.9 79.7 70.2 66.1 74.2
1995 75.8 72.5 78.9 76.5 73.4 79.6 69.6 65.2 73.9
1994 75.7 72.4 79.0 76.5 73.3 79.6 69.5 64.9 73.9
1993 75.5 72.2 78.8 76.3 73.1 79.5 69.2 64.6 73.7
1992 75.8 72.3 79.1 76.5 73.2 79.8 69.6 65.0 73.9
1991 75.5 72.0 78.9 76.3 72.9 79.6 69.3 64.6 73.8
1990 75.4 71.8 78.8 76.1 72.7 79.4 69.1 64.5 73.6
1989 75.1 71.7 78.5 75.9 72.5 79.2 68.8 64.3 73.3
1988 74.9 71.4 78.3 75.6 72.2 78.9 68.9 64.4 73.2
1987 74.9 71.4 78.3 75.6 72.1 78.9 69.1 64.7 73.4
1986 74.7 71.2 78.2 75.4 71.9 78.8 69.1 64.8 73.4
1985 74.7 71.1 78.2 75.3 71.8 78.7 69.3 65.0 73.4
1984 74.7 71.1 78.2 75.3 71.8 78.7 69.5 65.3 73.6
1983 74.6 71.0 78.1 75.2 71.6 78.7 69.4 65.2 73.5
1982 74.5 70.8 78.1 75.1 71.5 78.7 69.4 65.1 73.6
1981 74.1 70.4 77.8 74.8 71.1 78.4 68.9 64.5 73.2
1980 73.7 70.0 77.4 74.4 70.7 78.1 68.1 63.8 72.5
1979 73.9 70.0 77.8 74.6 70.8 78.4 68.5 64.0 72.9
1978 73.5 69.6 77.3 74.1 70.4 78.0 68.1 63.7 72.4
1977 73.3 69.5 77.2 74.0 70.2 77.9 67.7 63.4 72.0
1976 72.9 69.1 76.8 73.6 69.9 77.5 67.2 62.9 71.6
1975 72.6 68.8 76.6 73.4 69.5 77.3 66.8 62.4 71.3
1974 72.0 68.2 75.9 72.8 69.0 76.7 66.0 61.7 70.3
1973 71.4 67.6 75.3 72.2 68.5 76.1 65.0 60.9 69.3
19722 71.2 67.4 75.1 72.0 68.3 75.9 64.7 60.4 69.1
1971 71.1 67.4 75.0 72.0 68.3 75.8 64.6 60.5 68.9
1970 70.8 67.1 74.7 71.7 68.0 75.6 64.1 60.0 68.3
1960 69.7 66.6 73.1 70.6 67.4 74.1 — — —
1950 68.2 65.6 71.1 69.1 66.5 72.2 — — —
1940 62.9 60.8 65.2 64.2 62.1 66.6 — — —
1935 61.7 59.9 63.9 62.9 61.0 65.0 53.1 51.1 55.2
1930 59.7 58.1 61.6 61.4 59.7 63.5 48.1 47.3 49.2
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jan, 2018 01:50 pm
@maxdancona,
U.S. Life Expectancy Ranks 26th In The World, OECD Report Shows
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jan, 2018 01:50 pm
@jerlands,
Quote:
poor choice of words.. processed foods are a problem.


Can you define processed then (if you are talking about sugar and white flour I may agree with you... but the problem is lack of nutritional value per unit calorie).
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jan, 2018 01:52 pm
@jerlands,


That is irrelevant to your false claim that Life Expectancy in 2018 is lower than Life Expectancy in the 1940s (or whenever two generations ago means).

You made a claim that was false. Now we can talk about why US life expectancy is a year or two lower than other countries. I suspect it has more to do with violence and the availability of guns than it does to processed foods which are eaten in other countries.
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jan, 2018 02:01 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
poor choice of words.. processed foods are a problem.


Can you define processed then (if you are talking about sugar and white flour I may agree with you... but the problem is lack of nutritional value per unit calorie).


Ok.. you understand processing wheat and sugar.. fruit juice.. you remove the fiber and the sugar goes right into the bloodstream. commercial milk... milk is actually living but pasteurization kills it. All sorts of examples but it's best to eat as close to "raw" as possible.
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jan, 2018 02:03 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:



That is irrelevant to your false claim that Life Expectancy in 2018 is lower than Life Expectancy in the 1940s (or whenever two generations ago means).

You made a claim that was false. Now we can talk about why US life expectancy is a year or two lower than other countries. I suspect it has more to do with violence and the availability of guns than it does to processed foods which are eaten in other countries.



When you project you have to have considerations. The projections I've seen include the rise in disease in this country. I'll try and find something substantial for you but right now I'm betwixt and between
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