Krumple
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 07:09 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:

As much as it sounds as if I'm about to pull rank on you, I am curious as to whether or not you are what is considered an alcoholic.


This is silly.

If I am, does what I say have any thing to it? As if what I have to say doesn't qualify unless I am?

I wanted to talk about it as if it's irrelevant. But since you want to call me out on it as if you can just dismiss everything I have to say. Then I need to say that I am. Not only that but I am well aware of the AA system. I have been to many different meetings, different groups, large and small.

So now with all that said, what difference does it make? Do I qualify now? Silly.
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 07:58 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:

As much as it sounds as if I'm about to pull rank on you, I am curious as to whether or not you are what is considered an alcoholic.


Should I qualify myself more than that? As silly as this question is.

This coming February will be two years of sobriety for me. Not long, but not short either. But for some, that isn't long enough to mean anything. Some dismiss it as nothing. I shrug it off though because I look at it differently.

If my line of reasoning leads me to be sober today, then why can't this same line of reasoning lead me to be sober tomorrow?

It has been working this way for nearly two years now.

I don't go to meetings anymore. I can't stand them. But I have gone to them mostly to support friends who asked me to go with them. I no longer go on my own accord.

I laugh every time they open a meeting, because they will say, there is only one requirement for a meeting. Now I know this statement is just sort of tongue and cheek. It's not really meant as an actual requirement. However; I don't even have this requirement. The requirement for sobriety is the "Desire" to quit. I don't have that desire.

But then if I don't have that desire, how can I have sobriety? Seems contradictory. It's because my desire is that I can have my addiction and manage it. But I can't. Most of my problems that I have caused myself have been directly linked to my addiction. I desire to have my addiction and not create problems. But that is unrealistic. So I must suffer not having it.

It is my choice to choose sobriety. I don't want nor desire sobriety. I choose it. It works today, it works right now. I don't know if it will work tomorrow. It works right now.

Two years in February. It will work for fifty years. The point is self empowerment. Something they say is the "problem". You are powerless to do it on your own. Bullshit.

You wake up in the morning, it is you who decide to get into your car and drive to a meeting. It is you who don't step into a liquor store to pick up a bottle. It is you who decide not to pull into a bar parking lot. Your "higher" power can't prevent you from any of it. Your "higher" power can't do squat. It is you!

I will never be a sponsor. I will never qualify as a sponsor because I have never done the steps. I can't even get through step one. I don't desire sobriety. I choose it.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 08:04 pm
@Krumple,
You have one roadway.

Other people have different routes to /through sobriety.

You say you have gone to meetings to support your friends. That was kind of you.

Consider being supportive of the OP in his road instead of ridiculing it. It won't cost you anything.
Krumple
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 08:07 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

You have one roadway.

Other people have different routes to /through sobriety.

You say you have gone to meetings to support your friends. That was kind of you.

Consider being supportive of the OP in his road instead of ridiculing it. It won't cost you anything.


You see it as that. I don't. So is your opinion that I am "ridiculing" him the actual aspect that should be accepted? No. That is just as silly. You call it ridicule but I don't.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  3  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 08:57 pm
@Krumple,
Well ain't you a ******* Ray of Sunshine. I hope you are not trying to pass yourself off as a drunk who just willed yourself sober.....think about it.....did you will yourself to drink to excess? That doesn't sound very logical now does it.

I can't speak for all the others but I do want to thank you for all the interesting advice you inflict, it's so good to be reminded that there is at least one happy camper with a keyboard out there who has EVERYTHING figured out. I humble myself in front of thy glowing lamp of knowledge and offer my deep appreciation for all the good you shower on those who cannot hope to ever touch the hem of your condescending ego.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 09:13 pm
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:

Well ain't you a ******* Ray of Sunshine. I hope you are not trying to pass yourself off as a drunk who just willed yourself sober.....think about it.....did you will yourself to drink to excess? That doesn't sound very logical now does it.

I can't speak for all the others but I do want to thank you for all the interesting advice you inflict, it's so good to be reminded that there is at least one happy camper with a keyboard out there who has EVERYTHING figured out. I humble myself in front of thy glowing lamp of knowledge and offer my deep appreciation for all the good you shower on those who cannot hope to ever touch the hem of your condescending ego.


So the very thing that you don't like about me, is perfectly fine for you to do? You don't see how you are being hypocritical here? Let me guess, your opinion is the right one, and mine is the wrong one right?

When did I ever say that I had everything figured out? You are suggesting that I think that way. I haven't thought that way. You want to project these ideas as I am that way. So you can feel better about not liking my opinion.

Who feels superior now? Who are you to scold me over expressing my opinion? Right, you are better than me.. sorry how dare I express my opinion.
glitterbag
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 09:28 pm
@Krumple,
Oh ****, did I screw up.. what, I scolded you after you insulted practically everybody. Oh I'm such a hypocrite because I called you out....oh no, oh no, oh no, I barely think I can sleep tonight.

I might not be as patient as some of the other members, I suspect you think you are direct but , you are unnecessarily rude and blunt. I regret you're offended,.....no I guess I really don't regret it. You're living in a bubble if you think everyone will just respond with great kindness to your insulting nonsense.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  4  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 10:11 pm
@Krumple,
Quote:
I laugh every time they open a meeting . . .

Yes, I gathered that. So why are you there? Are you feeding a superiority complex or what? Are you there to add your support to the group, or are you bent on proving them childish?
Quote:
I don't go to meetings anymore. I can't stand them. But I have gone to them mostly to support friends who asked me to go with them.

So you attend meetings even though you don't agree with the group's ideas and philosophy concerning alcohol addiction and recovery? And you say you do so for the sole purpose of helping your friends? I'm wondering how your friends feel about your disdain for, and intolerance toward, that which you participate in (allegedly) for their benefit. You do tell them that you can't stand meetings because you think they're based on bullshit, right? Surely you're being honest with them, right?

One thing you will learn when you become honest and sincere is that you don't discourage people suffering from addiction by telling them that their efforts and mindset which are working for them are based on silliness. That's a rather selfish thing to do. You serve no one's interest but your own when you attend support group meetings with no interest in what they are about.
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  4  
Reply Sun 17 Dec, 2017 12:01 am
@Krumple,
See here Krumple, you want people to respect your opinion and way, then do the same favor to others.

As to sobriety and your 2 years, good on ya! The one truth about all alcoholics is we have today and more precisely this moment. The person with the most sobriety on a given day is the one who gets up earliest. Thirty years or thirty seconds each of us is vulnerable and I say this after close to 30 years. I can learn from a person sweating and shaking through their first several days and from the life lessons of the old timer. In AA and sobriety and in life itself, we are all equal. The challenge can be realizing, acknowledging and living this equality.

.
So again, take the road you want, but don't mock and demean those which are on other roads. Roads which we have found to be filled with caring and wise people and thus good for us.

One other thing, don't keep knocking the ways of AA, someday they might be your only hope - or are you a soothsayer and able too tell us that ain't-a gonna happen? The rooms regularly have people crawling in who've been in your spot, so go easy. In the end it might save your life. If you never need it, fine, live a happy life, I wish you all the best.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 17 Dec, 2017 12:10 am
@Sturgis,
Well said!
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  3  
Reply Sun 17 Dec, 2017 10:54 am
@Krumple,
Krumple wrote
Quote:
My point is why is it even necessary to establish? You are focusing on this "higher" power. But why? The point I am making is that it is YOU who is doing or not doing. The "higher" power is not involved in any way. So I don't get the point in establishing the "higher" power.

It is you who chooses sobriety at this moment. It is you who decides that you want to be sober at this moment. It is you, no-one, nothing else, just you. So why establish a "higher" power?


Comment:
Krumple, nothing is the whole reason why I drank or why I quit.

Why did I drink? Fun? Letting go of inhibitions? To relax? To fit in? Escape the rigors of life? Because it is a cheap high? To soothe back pain? Because it is a disease? The reasons can be endless.

No one thing is the reason why I drank they all contributed to that rationale. When done responsibly, drinking can be pleasurable... (another reason)

By the same token. There is no one reason why I have quit.

The gentle urging of others? Health reasons? Fear of the unknown? Recklessness and lack of composure? Shame?

But when one finds they are powerless to stop it is like drowning. When you are drowning you do not first question why you reach out for help. You do not sink and debate before reaching out, is this by my own compulsion or that of something else? When weakness and fatigue set in and one is drowning it is impossible to do it on your own. You just reach out for dear life to a higher power and cling to it for safety.

When you realize you cannot swim to the shore on your own volition you swallow your pride and surrender your life over to whatever will fulfill your need for survival.

No one reason is why you reach out. It is not only because of the sun but the promise of a bright sunny future is "part of the reason".

Regaining health is another "part of the reason"...

Your loving friends and their own testimony this is also "part of the reason", because you want what they have.

An end to the craziness could be a reason alone... But still it is still only "part of the reason".

All those reasons and many more compel you to reach out for safety. You do not need to cling to one reason alone while losing sight of the other reasons. When your body weakens you cannot swim it alone, we go through life doing the dead man's (person's) float.

They all add up to a complete picture and with them to motivate, one strives for wholeness and deliverance from the pitfalls of alcoholism.

They are all a higher power and I do not need to analyze who made the choice. A choice alone is not enough, it is only "part" where another part is in the doing. Just like prayer alone is worthless without supplication.

Sure, I can pick one reason, but I would be ignoring many other reasons. And if I must factor in my pride and my own stubbornness and tendency to habitual behavior and, oh yea... "weakness".

Why do some people get tired when they swim and drown? Support.

Some can't always do it on their own... This is powerlessness. I can either realize that is my case or die in constant failure. I can desire to live but lack the support. It is not one thing but many factors.
Why do some continue to drink? Weakness. And each new drinking spell renders them weaker and the tide and ocean swells pulls them further from the shore.

We time and again sink lower and reach the bottom of the "barrel" 'til death is the only way further down.

I decided to reach for help to something higher that is above my defeated state. Something with more power than me.

I made a choice for something else amid utter failure in the hope that something, anything higher could help where I had continuously failed.

I found help and that helped me obtain the desire to rise from the depths of failure and prevail over my illness, one day at a time.

A choice to survive is not always enough, some desperately need and require support from things that give hope and security.

Some will drown without this help. And it is not just one thing, like courage that helps us survive. Courage is only "part of the reason", it takes a whole myriad of reasons for most to overcome this disease. Some do it alone, don't boast... It only displays ignorance of the subtlety of the disease.

It behooves us to utilize every reason to ensure success.

Some reasons can be delusional, merely a mirage, and some can be of great power. Choose wisely... Smile

One can never be too sure of success...
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 17 Dec, 2017 03:03 pm
@Sturgis,
Sturgis wrote:

See here Krumple, you want people to respect your opinion and way, then do the same favor to others.


No it has nothing to do with me wanting people to respect my opinion. I just find it hypocritical that I need to validate my position before my opinion is even considered. That was the point I was making. I couldn't care any less that people don't value my opinion. I know I am right by all the down votes I get. Because I don't have group think. The down votes are silly. It is nothing more than trying to silence my opinion. Since what I have to say is not agreeable it should be down voted, dismissed. I am not in agreement with the status quo so I should be removed. It's hypocritical. That is what I am pointing out.

Sturgis wrote:

As to sobriety and your 2 years, good on ya! The one truth about all alcoholics is we have today and more precisely this moment. The person with the most sobriety on a given day is the one who gets up earliest. Thirty years or thirty seconds each of us is vulnerable and I say this after close to 30 years. I can learn from a person sweating and shaking through their first several days and from the life lessons of the old timer. In AA and sobriety and in life itself, we are all equal. The challenge can be realizing, acknowledging and living this equality.


I agree. So it shouldn't have been asked of me to validate myself. I shouldn't have ever been asked about my experience, if I am an addict. It should have been irrelevant. It's no different than a person with 30 years sobriety telling a person with one day that they have no clue what sobriety is. The thing is, even the 30 year sober person doesn't either. They are no different.

Sturgis wrote:

So again, take the road you want, but don't mock and demean those which are on other roads. Roads which we have found to be filled with caring and wise people and thus good for us.


Where have I mocked or demeaned anyone? You are going off someone else's claim of me. You are repeating their statement as if that is what I have done. No, I haven't done any of that. So quit repeating it as if I have.

Sturgis wrote:

One other thing, don't keep knocking the ways of AA, someday they might be your only hope - or are you a soothsayer and able too tell us that ain't-a gonna happen? The rooms regularly have people crawling in who've been in your spot, so go easy. In the end it might save your life. If you never need it, fine, live a happy life, I wish you all the best.


I already stated my point. If my line of thinking leads to sobriety right now, at this moment, why can't it lead me to sobriety tomorrow? If it works at this moment, it leads me to sobriety, it is silly to think it won't tomorrow. How can it possibly work right now and not later? The only way it wouldn't work is if I ignore it, or forget about it. But you can say that about anything even the with the steps themselves. If you forget about them you are no better off right?
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  3  
Reply Mon 18 Dec, 2017 01:22 am
The only similarity between a person with one day or 30 years sobriety is they both seemingly wish to remain sober. Beyond that, most other vital issues are a significant difference between them. They are both humans, but one is fortified, and one is vulnerable.

The biggest difference is the one with 30 years has 30 years of "practical" experience where the person with one day has maybe only some "doctrinal" experience.

Doctrines over time become practice.

"One day at a time" means a different thing when you are on your first day and when you have 10,950 days (30 years) sober...

Quality of life is different.

The fear of relapse seems less likely

Clear and focused thinking takes time to return

Distance from the effect of the disease

Sloppy thinking

We learn the doctrines from those with experience.

These doctrines become practice just as knowledge when practiced becomes wisdom. Doctrines become practices, not the other way around.

Life is about growing, and no one gets a head-start unless you are a fortunate one to not be an alcoholic or the disease has been slowed due to some extenuating factor.

We all need to progress along the same spiritual lines to become truly enlightened. There are rarely shortcuts and those who pursue them usually pay dearly in the end.

We are either fully prepared for our journey of sobriety or we are sadly unprepared and are bound to at some point face the consequences of our inadequacies.

The Trojan War was won by only a small force of fighters.

and I am not sure if this will mean anything to you but,

The Devil wears Prada (or Stetson). Smile

I spoke at the AA meeting tonight, thanks to encouragement here about veterans also needing to see the early struggle to reinforce their commitments.

I found that after I spoke I profoundly helped another person with only 18 months who had been wavering terrible the last few days with wanting to drink.

My leaving behind my selfishness may have saved another person.

It was raw honesty that was needed not ego and self-aggrandizement.

We need to boldly claim our sobriety but at the same time do it with grace and humility.
Krumple
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 18 Dec, 2017 03:38 pm
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:
The biggest difference is the one with 30 years has 30 years of "practical" experience where the person with one day has maybe only some "doctrinal" experience.


My over all point when I am comparing them is. Even a person with 30 years of sobriety can still go out just as easily as a person with one day of sobriety. There are people with ten or even fifteen years sobriety who go out. It happens.

You never actually graduate from addiction. You don't obtain something that makes you "cured". I know, I am probably stating an obvious but it needed to be mentioned.

So my point is there is no difference between 30 years or 1 day of sobriety. Sure the person with 30 years might have more refined tools to help assist them to make the choice to stay sober today. I am not dismissing that.

And as you have pointed out, to be of service to others is helpful to those who wish to be sober today. Your talk gave someone else a perspective for them. That is all I am doing here.

My over all point is, for some, a portion of society the AA method will never work. And my point is it deals specifically with the higher power idea.
TheCobbler
 
  3  
Reply Tue 19 Dec, 2017 06:21 am
@Krumple,
Your point is you don't like AA, and you sound like a broken record? 'Round and 'round over and over...

I disagree. AA is a great resource for those who have tried most everything else and failed. It is also good for those just starting out. There are lot of young people at AA now due to the latest drug epidemics...

Some who don't like AA can still succeed on their own.

That does not make your criticism of AA right.

Some people can learn to drive without driver's ed.. lol

Here are the keys and let's go!

I would not recommend it... Smile
Krumple
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2017 05:56 pm
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:

Your point is you don't like AA, and you sound like a broken record? 'Round and 'round over and over...


I never said I don't like AA. You said that. The reason I have to keep repeating myself is to correct the misrepresentation. Just like you have here, placed an opinion on me in which I do not have.

TheCobbler wrote:

I disagree. AA is a great resource for those who have tried most everything else and failed. It is also good for those just starting out. There are lot of young people at AA now due to the latest drug epidemics...


Yeah they have the system for almost everything. Video game addiction, smoking cigarettes and even porn.

TheCobbler wrote:

Some who don't like AA can still succeed on their own.


Isn't that what I was attempting to point out here?

TheCobbler wrote:

That does not make your criticism of AA right.


What criticism?

TheCobbler wrote:

Some people can learn to drive without driver's ed.. lol

Here are the keys and let's go!

I would not recommend it... Smile


A terrible metaphor.
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2017 06:12 pm
@Krumple,
Quote:
I never said I don't like AA.



Actually you did or at least the meetings themselves. On page three of this thread. https://able2know.org/topic/431499-3#post-6558434

Krumple wrote:
...I don't go to meetings anymore. I can't stand them.
Krumple
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2017 06:59 pm
@Sturgis,
Sturgis wrote:

Quote:
I never said I don't like AA.



Actually you did or at least the meetings themselves. On page three of this thread. https://able2know.org/topic/431499-3#post-6558434

Krumple wrote:
...I don't go to meetings anymore. I can't stand them.



There is a difference between not liking AA the system and not like going to meetings.

I was referring to going to meetings. I can't stand going to meetings anymore. I never said I didn't like the system. So NO I never said I didn't like AA,
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2017 07:05 pm
@Krumple,
Whatever works for you in your attempt to deflect and divert. I'd point out your derisive comments through this thread, but, I'm sure you'd have a handy-dandy retort for that as well.
Krumple
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2017 07:51 pm
@Sturgis,
Sturgis wrote:

Whatever works for you in your attempt to deflect and divert. I'd point out your derisive comments through this thread, but, I'm sure you'd have a handy-dandy retort for that as well.


Only because you WANT it to be that. Nice clever attempt at trying to force me into not responding to your silly comment.
 

Related Topics

The cult of AA - Discussion by chai2
Battery malfunction - Question by dalehileman
AA question - Discussion by Eliusa
It Happened ! ! - Discussion by 9one1
 
  1. Forums
  2. » AA Meetings
  3. » Page 3
Copyright © 2020 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 01/20/2020 at 02:51:27