TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Dec, 2017 09:12 pm
@edgarblythe,
I may have been more progressed than you, I tried to do it alone and failed many times.

It really hit my pride realizing I could not do it alone.

So, I was wrong... I am not as strong as I presume to be. I hate to be wrong.

I need to get over it and accomplish what I have set out to do in life.

I certainly will not accomplish that drunk. Smile

Thank you for your confidence Edgar.

My shortsightedness says to focus on each day until I have distance between me and the bottle, or can, or something with an umbrella and fruit in it.

Smile
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Dec, 2017 09:17 pm
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:

I may have been more progressed than you, I tried to do it alone and failed many times.

It really hit my pride realizing I could not do it alone.

So, I was wrong... I am not as strong as I presume to be. I hate to be wrong.

I need to get over it and accomplish what I have set out to do in life.

I certainly will not accomplish that drunk. Smile

Thank you for your confidence Edgar.

My shortsightedness says to focus on each day until I have distance between me and the bottle, or can, or something with an umbrella and fruit in it.

Smile



The funny thing is. You are doing it on your own.

See here is the odd thing. If there is a higher power that is aiding you in sobriety, why the hell did it not get involved prior to you developing your addiction? Why didn't it step in then and prevent you from falling?

It makes no sense, that NOW that you choose sobriety that it in some way is taking your hand to help you along the path of sobriety. Why the **** didn't it tap you on the shoulder and say, hey you really don't want to go there..

What ever your higher power is, that is you. You are the one taking the step, choosing sobriety. It is you. Sobriety is a choice. You have the power to decide which you want.

Empower your self. Your higher power is just an illusion you tell yourself because you believe that you can't make that decision yourself. You can. You just decide I will be sober today.

Empower your self.
TheCobbler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Dec, 2017 09:44 pm
@Krumple,
My higher power is not God, it is the sun.

A dumb old blob in the sky.

It is not something I imagine, it is there and I see it nearly every day.

It is higher and it is power.

In AA, luckily I get to choose my own higher power.

The sun gives me strength but strength is not magic... Strength gradually grows and is awakened in someone.

When I close my eyes and pray, it is the sun I see in my mind illuminating the darkness of my inner being.

I pray for life, vitality and strength, even on a cloudy day the sun's rays are touching me, and out to the farthest reaches of our solar system and beyond. Are there powers higher than the sun? I don't know for sure.
Krumple
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Dec, 2017 10:03 pm
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:

My higher power is not God, it is the sun.

A dumb old blob in the sky.

It is not something I imagine, it is there and I see it nearly every day.

It is higher and it is power.

In AA, luckily I get to choose my own higher power.

The sun gives me strength but strength is not magic... Strength gradually grows and is awakened in someone.

When I close my eyes and pray, it is the sun I see in my mind illuminating the darkness of my inner being.

I pray for life, vitality and strength, even on a cloudy day the sun's rays are touching me, and out to the farthest reaches of our solar system and beyond. Are there powers higher than the sun? I don't know for sure.


If the sun couldn't prevent you from developing the addiction to begin with, why would all of a sudden turning to it for assistance assist you with it?

I fail to see how praying to the sun, helps you maintain sobriety.
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Dec, 2017 10:05 pm
@Krumple,
The sun created my addiction in the ethyl alcohol it created in plants

The lord giveth and the lord taketh away....
Krumple
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Dec, 2017 10:10 pm
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:

The sun created my addiction in the ethyl alcohol it created in plants

The lord giveth and the lord taketh away....


Yes I completely understand that. But is it the sun that is making you choose sobriety? If it is, then why the **** didn't it chose it before you developed the addiction?

I am saying, it is YOU who decides sobriety. You are choosing it. The sun plays no role in it. It is your choice. You can misdirect this all you want, it's still you. The sun does not care if you drink or don't drink.
TheCobbler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Dec, 2017 10:14 pm
@Krumple,
When we become powerless we seek power to replenish the void of emptiness.
Krumple
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 15 Dec, 2017 10:24 pm
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:

When we become powerless we seek power to replenish the void of emptiness.


Powerless yet you make the choice. Did some magic happen that made you chose to be sober? No. It was still you. People kid themselves with these ideas that you are powerless and need something else to help you make the "proper" choice.

It is still you choosing sobriety.

I don't buy that you really think the sun is your higher power. I think you just tell people that because you don't want to sound silly. I think you believe its much deeper than that but are afraid people will think you are nutty. So you just hide behind the sun.

It's still just you. If a higher power is assisting you, then it is guilty for not preventing you from the problem in the first place. Unless you want to suggest that it didn't prevent you from falling because it wanted you to learn something. So it was necessary for you to go through this experience so that you can come out the other end wiser? Okay sure. It's still you.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Dec, 2017 10:24 pm
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:
focus on each day


one hour at a time
one day at a time
one song at a time

0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  3  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 11:12 am
@Krumple,
Krumple

Sorry I had to leave this morning on errands.

I am an agnostic... I do not know if there is a God or not. I prefer uncertainty over believing or disbelieving with such fervent adamancy that I become radical.

Uncertainty keeps me centered in reality.

I do believe the sun is a power of such great magnitude and awe, of this I do not doubt.

It is a power much greater than anything else I "know" of, pulling the planets with it, light years though space.

I can perceive in the possibility of God, but I do not know this God like I know and believe in the sun.

This is about honesty...

The sun is a higher power. This is not debatable in my logic.

Is the sun God? That is debatable.

Is the sun a grandiose source of wonder? Most certainly.

Can the sun prevent me from drinking alcohol?

Well, it is much better than a lucky dead rabbit's foot or a prayer to an invisible being that may or may not even exist.

I do not need to imagine the sun, it is there and even when it is not there it is sending rays of even imperceptible light in a steady stream touching me as I am always connected to the sun. It is always with me, like a God.

The sun nourishes me every day (vitamin D) and it gives me warmth like a close friend or a warm touch (heat). Like something that is living and breathing life.

We are conditioned by society to not worship the sun because of our religious culture that calls this worship "paganism" or "pantheism" and belittles the reverence of the sun.

I “know” of no higher power, light giver and life giver.

We can now discuss "quality of life". Without the sun most flowering trees and plants will not bear fruit.

One can live their life in darkness where there is very little light, or one can live where light is resplendent and abundant.

One cannot ignore the analogy of light and how light reveals things once hidden in the dark.

Darkness is like a deep sleep where one awakens at the sunrise and greets a new day.

Sobriety is very much like a new day and we are greeted by the sun on our way to a new life. The sun illuminates our consciousness and lifts a veil of old ways in a transformation like exiting a cocoon and flying away in the form of a butterfly.

So yes, I do hold the sun in the highest regard, I have most of my life even when I used to be religious.

But I left fantasy religion for rationale and science, and the sun withstood all of my criticism to prevail above all other forms of veneration.

I prefer the sun over any other “known” power…

If one lets the light shine within, it can illuminate the the dark recesses of a life that has lost its meaning and purpose.

We all grow towards the sun.

Smile
Krumple
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 04:12 pm
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:

Krumple

Sorry I had to leave this morning on errands.

I am an agnostic... I do not know if there is a God or not. I prefer uncertainty over believing or disbelieving with such fervent adamancy that I become radical.

Uncertainty keeps me centered in reality.

I do believe the sun is a power of such great magnitude and awe, of this I do not doubt.

It is a power much greater than anything else I "know" of, pulling the planets with it, light years though space.

I can perceive in the possibility of God, but I do not know this God like I know and believe in the sun.

This is about honesty...

The sun is a higher power. This is not debatable in my logic.

Is the sun God? That is debatable.

Is the sun a grandiose source of wonder? Most certainly.

Can the sun prevent me from drinking alcohol?

Well, it is much better than a lucky dead rabbit's foot or a prayer to an invisible being that may or may not even exist.

I do not need to imagine the sun, it is there and even when it is not there it is sending rays of even imperceptible light in a steady stream touching me as I am always connected to the sun. It is always with me, like a God.

The sun nourishes me every day (vitamin D) and it gives me warmth like a close friend or a warm touch (heat). Like something that is living and breathing life.

We are conditioned by society to not worship the sun because of our religious culture that calls this worship "paganism" or "pantheism" and belittles the reverence of the sun.

I “know” of no higher power, light giver and life giver.

We can now discuss "quality of life". Without the sun most flowering trees and plants will not bear fruit.

One can live their life in darkness where there is very little light, or one can live where light is resplendent and abundant.

One cannot ignore the analogy of light and how light reveals things once hidden in the dark.

Darkness is like a deep sleep where one awakens at the sunrise and greets a new day.

Sobriety is very much like a new day and we are greeted by the sun on our way to a new life. The sun illuminates our consciousness and lifts a veil of old ways in a transformation like exiting a cocoon and flying away in the form of a butterfly.

So yes, I do hold the sun in the highest regard, I have most of my life even when I used to be religious.

But I left fantasy religion for rationale and science, and the sun withstood all of my criticism to prevail above all other forms of veneration.

I prefer the sun over any other “known” power…

If one lets the light shine within, it can illuminate the the dark recesses of a life that has lost its meaning and purpose.

We all grow towards the sun.

Smile


I am completely with you on this. If there is anything "worthy" of worship it would be the sun. I get all that. I have even said similar things as you have presented above.

My point is why is it even necessary to establish? You are focusing on this "higher" power. But why? The point I am making is that it is YOU who is doing or not doing. The "higher" power is not involved in any way. So I don't get the point in establishing the "higher" power.

It is you who chooses sobriety at this moment. It is you who decides that you want to be sober at this moment. It is you, no-one, nothing else, just you. So why establish a "higher" power?
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 04:46 pm
The idea of a higher power is to have focus and remind oneself that they are not omnipotent or in charge of everything.
Krumple
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 05:07 pm
@Sturgis,
Sturgis wrote:

The idea of a higher power is to have focus and remind oneself that they are not omnipotent or in charge of everything.


Sure. That is fine and accurate. But you ARE in full control one one thing. The most important thing. The choice to chose sobriety. If that is the point. You have absolute control over that. So why speak about not having control over any thing else? It becomes irrelevant.

Sturgis
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 05:16 pm
@Krumple,
For many alcoholics there's a built in desire too always be in charge of very last thing and to then act upon it even to the point of self destruction and/or to full out annihilation of self, others and any future. This causes damage everywhere. In family, friends, workplace, living space - all relationships. Having a higher power to turn to means acknowledgement of limitations and and turning the matter over to another.

Yes, the alcoholic has choice; however, the alcoholic often does not have control. Turning to a higher power means asking for the help to not drink right now. It's important to be able to turn it (the will) over.
Krumple
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 05:22 pm
@Sturgis,
Sturgis wrote:

For many alcoholics there's a built in desire too always be in charge of very last thing and to then act upon it even to the point of self destruction and/or to full out annihilation of self, others and any future. This causes damage everywhere. In family, friends, workplace, living space - all relationships. Having a higher power to turn to means acknowledgement of limitations and and turning the matter over to another.


Smoke and mirrors to trick yourself out of feeling you can't control everything in your life. I think the observation is in the wrong direction. It has to be a choice. You don't just blank out and find yourself drinking. You go down a path way of decided that is what you are going to do next. It's a choice. It has nothing to do with feeling like you lack control over aspects of your life. It's still a 100% choice. Unless you are magically strapped down by invisible forces that force you to chose to drink, that I am unaware of.
Sturgis
 
  3  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 05:42 pm
@Krumple,
Are you an alcoholic?

Trust me, for people such as myself, there truly was no control. Especially once the alcohol hit my system and set the tumult in motion. There were times when I could not keep from picking up the first drink. That pattern continued until I was able to fully admit needing help.

I'm not saying this is the case for all alcoholics.. We are all individuals and are traveling our own roadways. Is there anything wrong with choosing a roadway where we let go of our ego and ask for something, anything to help. If that bothers you so much, look inside yourself and ask, why? because it shouldn't.
Krumple
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 06:08 pm
@Sturgis,
Sturgis wrote:

Are you an alcoholic?

Trust me, for people such as myself, there truly was no control. Especially once the alcohol hit my system and set the tumult in motion. There were times when I could not keep from picking up the first drink. That pattern continued until I was able to fully admit needing help.

I'm not saying this is the case for all alcoholics.. We are all individuals and are traveling our own roadways. Is there anything wrong with choosing a roadway where we let go of our ego and ask for something, anything to help. If that bothers you so much, look inside yourself and ask, why? because it shouldn't.


It's not about it bothering me. I just find it funny that people go through this trickery to trick themselves into thinking it is not them who is making the choice. Just like suggesting it is not them who makes the choice to drink.

You are powerless right to make the choice to NOT drink? Am I right? Powerless to make the choice to not take the first drink. Surrender right? Surrender to something else that can make that choice for you? Really?

But it IS you. How can people not acknowledge this. Why do we continue to play these childish games of make belief that there is something else that helps you make the "right" choice?

My over all point is. This very notion that you need something else to help you might the right choice is why our society is so fucked to begin with. I am trying to suggest to empower yourself. You don't need anything than what you already have. You! You make the choice. You push down the path of sobriety. ITS ******* YOU. Not something else. You don't need anything else. Just you.

If people were to acknowledge this or empower themselves more than they; do. Then **** would actually progress. We would be able to grow as a society. But no, we get held back by these silly ideas that you are powerless to make proper choices alone. You need to trick yourself so you can make the "right" choice.
Sturgis
 
  3  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 06:23 pm
It's not trickery, no smoke and mirrors, no sleight of hand. If you don't have an ability, desire or need to comprehend, then fine. However, stop attempting to demean others due to your differing viewpoint.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 06:28 pm
@Sturgis,
Sturgis wrote:

I'm not saying this is the case for all alcoholics.. We are all individuals and are traveling our own roadways. Is there anything wrong with choosing a roadway where we let go of our ego and ask for something, anything to help. If that bothers you so much, look inside yourself and ask, why? because it shouldn't.


so very well said
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 06:37 pm
@Krumple,
As much as it sounds as if I'm about to pull rank on you, I am curious as to whether or not you are what is considered an alcoholic.
 

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