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Thu 13 Jan, 2005 11:24 am
In a couple of threads recently, I've seen variations on the theme...
..."we all should respect the beliefs of others."
Often...they are embellishments...such as "...the deeply held beliefs" or "...fervently held beliefs."
As I've mentioned several times here in A2K...and back at Abuzz...I think this is nonsense...poor advice at best...and abject hypocrisy at worst.
Mostly, it seems to me, when people talk about showing respect for other's beliefs...it is occasioned by their being miffed about some slight (or perceived slight) toward their own beliefs. By its very nature...there is an element of hypocrisy in that kind of thing...because essentially, the person (a) doing the complaining about the slight (and asking for respect for their beliefs)...is slighting the person (b) who may be acting on his/her deeply or fervently held beliefs that (a)s beliefs must be challenged...and challenged passionately. In a very real sense...(a) is showing disrespect for (b)s beliefs by complaining.
It is my opinion that most people want to pick and choose which beliefs to respect...and which to scorn. And I think most of the exhortations for everyone to "respect other people's beliefs"...are nothing more than a cry for others to respect their[/i] beliefs.
How many of you, for instance, think that we ought show respect for Osama Bin Laden's deeply and fervently held beliefs? How about the deeply and fervently held beliefs of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi? How about the deeply and fervently held beliefs of Adolph Hitler?
I'd love to hear some discussion of this issue.
(Although not germane to the general issue under discussion here, I want to acknowledge that I consider beliefs, especially those in the religion area, to be mostly thin air...nothing more than guesses about the unknown....using the word "belief" to disguise the fact that they are guesses.)
I think challenging someone's beliefs is a sign of respect -- as long as it is done respectfully. Maybe I mean to say that it is the person that should be respected and not the beliefs. In the cases of Osama and Abu, we are entitled to disrespect them because of who/what they are. I happen to have a deep, well-earned disrespect for certain Southern Baptists, but that's just as much about who they are as it is about what they believe.
Get ready for a SHOCK, Frank. I agree!
(Frame that)
I think you should respect the person not necessarily the belief. If the person deserves respect, that is.
It might be worthwhile to expand on the meaning of "respect" as well.
What do people really mean when they say, "I respect your views/opinions/beliefs" ?
Sounds like political correctness or possibly it is just a polite way of being non-confrontational.
What I mean when I say that is something like, "While I do not think as you do, I recognize that I have different life experiences, different sources of information, and a different brain."
It is not informative or interesting to me to say "you're wrong, I'm right."
If there is something challengeable about a belief I disagree with, I'll challenge it -- as FreeDuck says, no reason thhat can't be done respectfully.
I am much more likely to challenge a belief that has repercussions of some sort. If someone in my neighborhood believes that trees spread cancer and is trying to have them cut down, I am more likely to challenge the belief than if that same person mentions in passing -- not evangelizing -- that they take vitamins daily to help prevent cancer.
Ticomaya wrote:Define "beliefs."
We'd be here all night doing that, Tico.
Here's some dictionary definitions:
Oxford Dictionary > belief
noun 1 a feeling that something exists or is true, especially one without proof. 2 a firmly held opinion. 3 (belief in) trust or confidence in. 4 religious faith.
Merriam Webster > belief
1 : a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
2 : something believed; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group
3 : conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence
synonyms BELIEF, FAITH, CREDENCE, CREDIT mean assent to the truth of something offered for acceptance. BELIEF may or may not imply certitude in the believer <my belief that I had caught all the errors>. FAITH almost always implies certitude even where there is no evidence or proof <an unshakable faith in God>. CREDENCE suggests intellectual assent without implying anything about grounds for assent <a theory now given credence by scientists>. CREDIT may imply assent on grounds other than direct proof <gave full credit to the statement of a reputable witness>. synonym see in addition OPINION
I think that there is a big difference in respecting a person's beliefs, as opposed to respecting a person's right to hold those beliefs. I believe that a person has the right to their beliefs, so long as they do not impinge upon my rights.
I would not presume to attempt to talk a person out of their beliefs, unless I cared for them, and believed that their beliefs were harmful to them. (ie, cults). The only way that I would even have a discussion about differences in belief is if it were between myself, and consenting adults.
There are many beliefs that people hold that I think are puerile and naive. Unless my opinion is asked, I would not dream of challenging those beliefs. I do not think that that is appropriate.
To be honest, I judge each person as an individual, beliefs notwithstanding. Should those beliefs override natural human reason, like an Osama or Hitler, I have no use for those people. Lip-service to insanity does nobody any good. Thankfully, despite what the mostly fake news these days wants you to believe, the vast majority of human beings are essentially good people, IMO. Meh, call me an optimist.
Dozens of homeless people in San Francisco believe they are Jesus.
Gotta respect that.
What do you mean when you say that you "respect" someone's beliefs?
without reading all i must suggest that respect is something one gives to a person, not to an idea held by that person.
unfortunately, if most of a person's ideas make no sense at all, and do not indicate a dutiful examination of available knowledge being used to form those ideas, it is rare that that person's personality is regardless worthy of respect. But then those are not ideas, but chosen labels that for some reason this person wishes to be associated with.
If a person has seriously investigated a subject and the results do not match the conclusions that you have reached with a similar rigour, then one must respect that person and give attention to their comments. But there is no respect due, merely on the basis of someone having taken a position, even if it is shared by a large part of this planet's population.
Phoenix32890 wrote:I think that there is a big difference in respecting a person's beliefs, as opposed to respecting a person's right to hold those beliefs. I believe that a person has the right to their beliefs, so long as they do not impinge upon my rights.
I would not presume to attempt to talk a person out of their beliefs, unless I cared for them, and believed that their beliefs were harmful to them. (ie, cults). The only way that I would even have a discussion about differences in belief is if it were between myself, and consenting adults.
There are many beliefs that people hold that I think are puerile and naive. Unless my opinion is asked, I would not dream of challenging those beliefs. I do not think that that is appropriate.
But Phoenix...not to put too fine a point on it...aren't you saying that you want to be able to pick and choose which "person's right to hold those beliefs"...you want to respect?
You are saying that you will determine which beliefs "impinge" on your rights. You are saying that you will determine which beliefs are possibly harmful. And those that come into those categories...you feel no responsibility to respect.
I agree.
Which is to say...I want to choose which "beliefs" I see as impinging on my rights...which I see to be harmful. AND I DO NOT WANT TO RESPECT IN THE LEAST...those which fall into those categories.
Do you see the problem with that?
Hypocrisy and belief go hand-in-hand!
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