U.S. Gave $1B in Faith-Based Funds in 2003

I think those same founding fathers would have heartily approved President Bush's faith based initiatives to help people. For the life of me I can't understand the kind of prejudice that would deny people very real material help because it is dispensed by somebody who openly professes a belief in God.

Never underestimate religion and what it can do for some people.

dyslexia wrote:

If the government had been as effective in eradicating religion from public life as George W. Bush likes to insist it has,

When did W say this? I don't recall it. I also don't think it is a worthwhile goal.

Quote:

the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS) would not have been able to turn public park benches into church pews. But that's pretty much what happened in 1998, when LDS leaders secretly persuaded then-Salt Lake City Mayor Deedee Corradini to sell a block of Main Street to the church for $8.1 million. The church had been coveting the downtown land for years, as it slowly snatched up all the real estate surrounding the Mormon Tabernacle, its religious capital.

I'm not a Mormon and I disagree strongly with their views. I'm one of those fundamentalist Christians. Yet I can't help but wonder what the history of the land is. Was it ever previously owned by the mormons? Did the Mormons give up land years ago that is now owned by the city? If so it seems a little biased if we only consider the most recent events without taking the past into account.

See fundamentalist Christians can be tolerant of other religions.

Baldimo wrote:

Never underestimate religion and what it can do for some people.

Right, like causing death.

Why is it Conservatives who talk religion make people nervous but libs with religion don't?

Quote:

Simple. Because the "fundies" believe that they have the right and I guess even the obligation to impose their religious "morality" and mores upon everyone else.

Could you please provide specific recent examples which were not also an example of non-religious people imposing their views on others?

Quote:

They do not believe in live and let live.

Who is not letting you live?

.

Quote:

IMO opinion it was the Fundies and the Ayatollah in the white house that started a religious war in this nation.

Faith based organizations could also receive federal funds before Bush's initiative. They just has to abide by some rules such as non descrimination the same as secular organizations and many did.

mesquite wrote:

Baldimo wrote:

Never underestimate religion and what it can do for some people.

Right, like causing death.

Mesquite
I think if you do an HONEST assessment you will notice things like hospitals ,universities and entire communities that were started by religious people. Ever read the mayflower compact?
http://www.nationalcenter.org/MayflowerCompact.html

Like I said, this does require honesty.

Hanged on June 10, 1692
Bridget Bishop, Salem

Hanged on July 19, 1692
Sarah Good, Salem Village
Rebecca Nurse, Salem Village
Susannah Martin, Amesbury
Elizabeth How, Ipswich
Sarah Wilds, Topsfield

Hanged on August 19, 1692
George Burroughs, Wells, Maine
John Proctor, Salem Village
John Willard, Salem Village
George Jacobs, Sr., Salem Town
Martha Carrier, Andover

September 19, 1692
Giles Corey, Salem Farms, pressed to death

Hanged on September 22, 1692
Martha Corey, Salem Farms
Mary Eastey, Topsfield
Alice Parker, Salem Town
Ann Pudeater, Salem Town
Margaret Scott, Rowley
Wilmott Reed, Marblehead
Samuel Wardwell, Andover
Mary Parker, Andover

Other accused witches that were not hanged, but died in prison:

Sarah Osborne, Salem Village
Roger Toothaker, Billerica
Lyndia Dustin, Reading
Ann Foster, Andover

Thirteen others may have also died in prison, but sources conflict on the exact number.

Have you ever heard of the Salem witch trials? Now there is an accomplishment done solely in the name of religion.

Then why don't you guys elect a president of your liking who will cut out all faith based groups and do it exactly like you want it done? Good luck in getting the help to the people who need it though because it is those terrible, icky people with a particular religious world view who are doing most of the work in that area. And you better dig deeper into your pockets too because it's going to cost you a lot more money to get the same results.

It is a pure fact that most of the hands on work to people in need are being done by the religious.

It is a pure fact that most of the hands on work to people in need are being done by the religious. And it is a pure fact that there are no Christians anywhere in modern times who are still persecuting witches. And for you to imply that the Christians receiving government grants to help people would burn witches at the stake is simple beneath contempt, Mesquite. And yes, it is an adhominem attack and straw man.

Mesquite
I think if you do an HONEST assessment you will notice things like hospitals ,universities and entire communities that were started by religious people. Ever read the mayflower compact?
http://www.nationalcenter.org/MayflowerCompact.html

Like I said, this does require honesty.

I'm one of those fundamentalist Christians.

Something to note here, although most rational people no longer believe in witches, the passages which prescribed the above atrocities are still in the Bible. As a fundamentalist, do you believe in witches and the prescribed punishments??

Now all this went on during at least the Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush the 1st, and Clinton years and nobody complained in the least. But now that Bush the 2nd is in office, it is suddenly a problem. And the only reason it is a problem is the administration is open and honest about how the funding is being distributed?

Seems to be there is a lot of disingenuousness here and attitudes worthy of contempt, but the Bush administration isn't part of that as I see it.

Pres. GEORGE W. BUSH: I asked Congress to join me and pass what I called the faith-based initiative, which would help change the culture of Washington and the behavior of bureaucracies. They've stalled. So I just signed an executive order.