14
   

Evolutionry/religious nonsense

 
 
Leadfoot
 
  2  
Reply Tue 1 Jan, 2019 06:51 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
You don't know what I'm open to, so keep your snide characterizations to yourself. Come up with something which is plausible, and doesn't entail the intervention of supernatural agency, and I'll be happy to consider it.

My good man, I don't need to point out what you are not open to when you proclaim it so loudly yourself.
Leadfoot
 
  2  
Reply Tue 1 Jan, 2019 07:25 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
In science, you must be able to observe what we conclude is evidence of its existence. 4. Most things that cannot be observed is "inferred." It's only a premise.

Yes, exactly, like abiogenesis and evolution.

We can not observe either one even if we lived a billion years. We would have to monitor and track at least one genome and account for every change that ever happened during it's changes in order to prove evolution of a new animal by accidental mutation and natural selection.

So what you have in evolution is a theory which offers a plausible explanation for what we see. It is a theory. Just like your theory that "There is no God" for which you have no direct observable evidence. You are 'inferring' there is no God because you lack evidence. The inferred evidence of design is not enough for you, just as the inferred evidence of the fossile record is not enough for me.

Just another day in the matrix.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jan, 2019 08:06 am
@Leadfoot,
I "proclaimed it so loudly" because you were snidely implying that I am not open to plausible ideas, for which there is at least good, logical inference. Any explanation of the diversity of life on this planet, and of the fossil record which entails supernatural agency and peoples' imaginary friends is not plausible on the face of it. You need to meet the standard of plausibility, at least through good and logical inferential evidence, and you haven't done that; you haven't even come close.
0 Replies
 
MadJW
 
  2  
Reply Tue 1 Jan, 2019 09:20 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

So all you've got are cartoons, sneers and insults. You are a waste of time.


--------------
No- I have the Questions you and the other arrogant and condescending atheist zealots ignore.

Who DOESN'T sneer at disgusting deception?
And, thus I see why the cartoons disturb you!

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee380/theMadJW/Deviloution/theQUESTION_zpsabsxcvve.png
0 Replies
 
MadJW
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jan, 2019 09:31 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter:Bible: Earth is 7,000 years old. Science: Earth is 4.5 billion years old.
MadJW: Wrong, as usual. It opens saying it already existed as a wasteland.

cicerone imposter: Bible: World flood. Science: No evidence of a world flood.
MadJW: Wrongh, as usual, but, as in court, evidence is often ignored or twisted.

cicerone imposter: Bible: Jesus returned from the dead. Science: Once brain dead, you're dead.
MadJW: True- for a change. And believing we made ourselves, I understand your hopelessness about the future.
cicerone imposter: Bible: Thou shalt not kill.
MadJW: True, with exceptions.

cicerone imposter: Bible: Kill all nonbelievers.
MadJW: You're thinking Koran
Bible: cicerone imposter: Adam and Eve were the first humans. Science: Homo sapiens evolved from primates.
MadJW: True! Sense vs Nonsense.

https://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee380/theMadJW/Deviloution/TheBook_zpsb9io5d1q.jpg

cicerone imposter: http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence
MadJW: Deception and Guesswork

cicerone imposter: Finally: No evidence of any god or gods.
MadJW: the evidence is literally pasted to his nose; the nose, too, showing wonderful Design!

cicerone imposter: Many cultures created their own gods.
MadJW: Like ours has created the Goddess Natural Selection.

Next pretentious and ignorant claims?



0 Replies
 
brianjakub
 
  3  
Reply Thu 3 Jan, 2019 03:35 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
1. There is no evidence of an "intelligent designer." Intelligent designer is based on religion and faith, not evidence.


There is no evidence that the new information for macro evolution can be provided by mutations that are initiated by random introduction of new information. There is no evidence that evolution by random introduction of information as a "system" can spontaneously arise from non living matter.

But, I can provide evidence that intelligence can provide new information in an orderly way to add complexity and, intelligence can create a system like natural selection because it is a system using artificial intelligence.

And there is a large amount of historical evidence supporting the notion that there were many intelligent designers with the God of Genesis as the creator of everything including any other Intelligent Designers.

Quote:
2. According to science, humans evolved.


That could also be argued by the Science supporting Intelligent Design by using The Designer to fill the gaps that science fills with faith and without any evidence explaining the process or by modeling the process.

Quote:
3. In science, you must be able to observe what we conclude is evidence of its existence.


There is no scientific evidence supporting the claim that abiogenisis and macroevolution can happen by the random introduction of information to operate evolution by natural selection let alone create the system.

But, if there is, could you show us you understand or somebody else understands it, and please go over the step by step process (or sight a scholarly paper) describing how a one celled a sexually reproducing animal to evolved to an sexually reproducing wholly mammoth?

And, if you use the words "could have", "might have", "may have", etc. . . in your explanation could you show some proof that the process is understood, (and really could have happened) beyond giving the process a name like these?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_sexual_reproduction#Other_explanations

Quote:
4. Most things that cannot be observed is "inferred." It's only a premise. Everything in earth's environment is the result of nature.


But, since I can provide a real physical model showing Intelligence can create complexity. And, you can not provide a model where random introduction of information can produce macroevolution or any other comparable complex thing plus, since I can provide evidence that somebody in history claimed to be the designer and people witnessed him performing only supernatural things that someone with the designers capabilities could perform.

Let's, call the thing that introduced the information to introduce the system of natural selection by intelligent design and, the new information to fill the gaps for macroevolution, the "Magic Sky Daddy".

But, since you (so far anyway) can't produce as much evidence or modeling that random introduction of information can create the system (abiogensis) nor, fill the gaps of macroevolution let's still give your theory (the process known as Darwinian Evolution by natural selection of randomly introduced information) " the Spaghetti Monster.

I am suggesting Spaghetti Monster because, it suggests a non personal entity made of spaghetti and a pile of spaghetti looks "random". While, Magic Sky Daddy implies an intelligent caring person very similar to the one described in the first book of Genesis.
0 Replies
 
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2019 09:52 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
It is a primitive assumption of unsophisticated humans that as humans make things, everything around them must have been made. That is the origin of the concept of a creator. It shows a lack of imagination, ignorance and superstitious fear. It is not to be wondered at in primitive people--it is pathetic in educated, contemporary adults.

It is dull-witted.


I will respond to you the same way I responded to cicerone.

Quote cicerone imposter:
Quote:

1. There is no evidence of an "intelligent designer." Intelligent designer is based on religion and faith, not evidence.



There is no evidence that the new information for macro evolution can be provided by mutations that are initiated by random introduction of new information. There is no evidence that evolution by random introduction of information as a "system" can spontaneously arise from non living matter.

But, I can provide evidence that intelligence can provide new information in an orderly way to add complexity and, intelligence can create a system like natural selection because it is a system using artificial intelligence.

And there is a large amount of historical evidence supporting the notion that there were many intelligent designers with the God of Genesis as the creator of everything including any other Intelligent Designers.

Quote cicerone:
Quote:
2. According to science, humans evolved.



That could also be argued by the Science supporting Intelligent Design by using The Designer to fill the gaps that science fills with faith and without any evidence explaining the process or by modeling the process.

Quote cicerone:
Quote:
3. In science, you must be able to observe what we conclude is evidence of its existence.



There is no scientific evidence supporting the claim that abiogenisis and macroevolution can happen by the random introduction of information to operate evolution by natural selection let alone create the system.

But, if there is, could you show us you understand or somebody else understands it, and please go over the step by step process (or sight a scholarly paper) describing how a one celled a sexually reproducing animal to evolved to an sexually reproducing wholly mammoth?

And, if you use the words "could have", "might have", "may have", etc. . . in your explanation could you show some proof that the process is understood, (and really could have happened) beyond giving the process a name like these?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_sexual_reproduction#Other_explanations

Quote cicerone:
Quote:
4. Most things that cannot be observed is "inferred." It's only a premise. Everything in earth's environment is the result of nature.



But, since I can provide a real physical model showing Intelligence can create complexity. And, you can not provide a model where random introduction of information can produce macroevolution or any other comparable complex thing plus, since I can provide evidence that somebody in history claimed to be the designer and people witnessed him performing only supernatural things that someone with the designers capabilities could perform.

Let's, call the thing that introduced the information to introduce the system of natural selection by intelligent design and, the new information to fill the gaps for macroevolution, the "Magic Sky Daddy".

But, since you (so far anyway) can't produce as much evidence or modeling that random introduction of information can create the system (abiogensis) nor, fill the gaps of macroevolution let's still give your theory (the process known as Darwinian Evolution by natural selection of randomly introduced information) " the Spaghetti Monster.

I am suggesting Spaghetti Monster because, it suggests a non personal entity made of spaghetti and a pile of spaghetti looks "random". While, Magic Sky Daddy implies an intelligent caring person very similar to the one described in the first book of Genesis.

Where is my logic mistaken?
MadJW
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jan, 2019 06:05 pm
@brianjakub,
Has Science changed so much?
It used to say Life only came from Life....
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jan, 2019 11:15 pm
@brianjakub,
Everywhere--you predicate all of your remarks on un-demonstrated, a priori assumptions.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jan, 2019 07:27 am
Certainly true on the other side.
MadJW
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jan, 2019 08:58 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Everywhere--you predicate all of your remarks on un-demonstrated, a priori assumptions.


No- I'm not teaching Evolution...
MadJW
 
  2  
Reply Sun 13 Jan, 2019 09:01 am
@MadJW,
Knowing there is no FOUNDATION for Evolution- they cut off how they imagine Life began- and call it abiogenesis...

No intelligence required for life to begin- and progress; just impossibilities stacked upon impossibilities!
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jan, 2019 12:40 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
If Jesus is God, how is he called God's only begotten son?
Forums: Trinity, Religion, Spirituality And Religion, Bible, Theology
. Please explain?
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jan, 2019 01:05 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
Everywhere--you predicate all of your remarks on un-demonstrated, a priori assumptions.


Quote:
A priori knowledge or justification is independent of experience, as with mathematics (3 + 2 = 5), tautologies ("All bachelors are unmarried"), and deduction from pure reason (e.g., ontological proofs).[3]
A posteriori knowledge or justification depends on experience or empirical evidence, as with most aspects of science and personal knowledge.


There is no evidence that the new information for macro evolution can be provided by mutations that are initiated by random introduction of new information from experience. Also, there is no evidence from experience that evolution by random introduction of information as a "system" can spontaneously arise from non living matter. If you could provide some (and micro evoultiuon is not evidence of macroevolution) than your evidence is priori. So, could you please provide some postiori knowledge?

But, I can provide evidence that intelligence can provide new information in an orderly way to add complexity and, intelligence can create a system like natural selection because it is a system using artificial intelligence. That is postiori knowledge not priori.

And there is a large amount of historical evidence supporting the notion that there were many intelligent designers (cicerone's many god's and noted in the bible as the Nephilium or son's of God) that created with "the God" of Genesis and created everything including any other Intelligent Designers. But even that information is handed down orally and written from Eye witness accounts which are accounts from experience and therefore are also postori in nature. Are confusing ancient experiences of demonstrations with no experience when you call the un-demonstrated priori assumptions?

And, since macro-evolution abiogenisis is not implied independent of experience (as with mathematics (3 + 2 = 5), tautologies "All bachelors are unmarried", and deduction from pure reason (e.g., ontological proofs), are you excluding Darwinian evolution by Natural selection as a valid hypothesis, because all of its assumptions about macro evolution and abiogenisis are priori?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jan, 2019 01:26 pm
You continue to babble about "algorithms" and "information." All the mutated individuals and all the mutated species whose genomes did not give them a reproductive advantage are gone. That's how natural selection works. There is no basis for your "information" bullsh*t because that's not how natural selection works. Natural selection turns out to be a brutal process. Anything that enhances reproductive success, via conferring an advantage in exploiting the immediate environment is preserved in the genome-anything which does not provide an advantage may be retained. All traits which inhibit the ability to exploit the environment will be tossed out as individuals and species die.

I have pointed out the case of the woolly mammoth and the woolly rhinoceros time and again. The mutation, whatever its source, which lead to the development of long guard hairs and downy undercoat caused the macor-evolutionary speciation into woolly mammoth and woolly rhinoceros and did in fact create new species. It wasn't about "information," it was about reproductive success. Those two species thrived on the periglacial steppes of the ice ages. When the ice ages ended, they were doomed.

Your bullsh*t gets tedious. You constantly attempt to shoehorn your moronic god fairy tale into a scientific discussion, without a shred of even logical evidence for the magic sky daddy. I'm tired of your bullsh*t. You can post whatever the hell you like, I will waste no more time on you.
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jan, 2019 02:37 pm
@Setanta,
Like you said, “natural selection is brutal a process.” As a process it is made up of information and uses information to determine the selection. The system has built in knowledge (artificial intelligence). You can deny that all you want but, that is wrong.

Quote:
The mutation, whatever its source, which lead to . . .”
. The “whatever” is what we are talking about. You can’t ignore the problem and call it a solution. “What is the whatever”? Provide a posterior justification for the hypothesis that you don’t need intelligence for complexity. Do you think “whatever” is a good enough explanation?

My evidence is eye witness accounts an actual claim to be the person that did it. This information is provided in historical documentation and oral tradition. (Which by definition is not priori.) What is yours beyond the existence of the woolly mammoth. (Which is priori). I am patiently awaiting your detailed explanation so we can picture the process explaining how the mutations occurred.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jan, 2019 03:50 pm
@brianjakub,
I take it that why you mean by "artificial intelligence" is something close to survival of the fittest.
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jan, 2019 07:25 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yes
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2019 09:43 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote: (from who?)
Quote:
If Jesus is God, how is he called God's only begotten son?
Forums: Trinity, Religion, Spirituality And Religion, Bible, Theology

CI said:
. Please explain?


Well, I never said Jesus was God and neither did he. And I've been asking Christians that for longer than you have (probably?). But thank you for asking.

0 Replies
 
Helloandgoodbye
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jan, 2019 07:00 am
@Setanta,
The wooly mammoth example you give is yet another adaptatation which can fit into an intelligent design model/theory. The Genesis account of creation too (Genesis 3:18 as an example, look it up)

Humanity too can create machines built with sensors to ‘adapt’ or ‘chsnge’ automatically. Like headlights on a car, on/off depending on what the environment is doing.

I do enjoy ppl of the evolution faith explaining how evolution works, and how it has apparently turned cows into whales etc. As well as the subject of morality Wink thx for your input.
Oh, the sinful mind of mankind!
0 Replies
 
 

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