Evolutionry/religious nonsense

Those two tiny gap's are not new gaps they have always been there and can only be filled by intelligence.

Those two gaps have a few things in common.

One is you call them tiny and I don't know why.

The second is a lot of complex information entered the universe all at once. That is very significant. One initiated the evolution of matter the other initiated the evolution of life.

There is one other initiation Event that you left ou, the introduction of human intelligence. That introduced another major change in our world, "civilization and technology". There would be no civilization or technology without human intelligence. Why not assume that same pattern follows back in time to fill in the other gaps? It seems like a logical deduction from the patterns. It appears Even cicerone is starting to catch on to the pattern.

Don't be too impressed by human intelligence. We're just the product of a branch of primates that happened to be able to develop languages, and keep a record of our history. Men all over this planet created many religions; they're just imagined gods that have no basis in fact or evidence. Even human (homo sapiens) evolution took thousands of years many centuries after our appearance on this planet. At least that's what scientists who have studied human evolution tells us. I believe them over any religious' interpretation of how humans came to be. How many gods do you think humans have created? Don't you find it strange that different cultures created different gods?

I think some of the gods of mythology and other pagan gods were real. I think men created a lot of gods too. Whats that got to do with the evidence that suggests there is an intelligence more capable than any other behind the order that covers millions of light years of our universe. Looks to me like a distraction that you are falling for.

How many false proposals for randomly initiated abiogenisis are there? Wiki has something like 13 listed. None can be proven and all could be wrong.

I believe the scientific evidence fits ID perfectly. Where doesnt it?

Which ones?

I should have said some probably were real men, the Nephilum or descendants of seth in the bible. The bible called the descendants of seth sons of God with extremely long lives. My catholic bible has commentary saying they may have been the gods of mythology. Makes some sense, theres always some truth behind all legends.

SO you consider this to be evidence?? Its not even close. Its a SAD OPINION based on a medieval worldview. CAN you understand how evidence even presents itself??.
Your running to hide behind particle phyics misses a major point. This is all about biology which appeared as a result of chemical nd physical conditions that hqd been in effect for a billion year or more after the formation of the solar system.
All youre trying to do is impress yourself with scientistic speak.

Thats sophomoric bullshit, Its just that you cant wrap your damned hed around the key evidence that supports biology and evolution that you demand to make up some story that plops-in some amateur cosmology nd Q physics as a critical component.

You hve aid it all there kid. You should spend more time trying to understand molecular chem and biochem and explain the explicit facts that separate science from your brand of "Creationism"

My amateur cosmology and qm gives a real physical reason for the existence of gravity, qm and the constants of physics. I know somethings about physics and cosmology that you dont know. I know what the structure of the higgs field and the interior of an atom looks like. That is a real advantage when it comes to understanding physics. So when you dont know what somebody else knows, ask questions, dont call them names.

I Know the picture is correct because it works with most the math that mainstream (it only works with Guths inflation theory, not Hawkings)and even some not so mainstream physics has to offer. David Bohm (who was a mainstream physics professor) said there is an implied underlying order to the structure of all space. He was not so mainstream when he first made that statement but became mainstream later in his life. He was not spewing sophomoric bullshit niether is Erik Verlinde with his entropic gravity. ( but a sophomore can understand it)

I agree that the natural world is capable of micro evolution, it does that job very well and we observe it happening. I do not think the natural world is capable of producing the complexty we observe in the structure of space and matter(something you know very little about) without intelligent intervention. Nor is it capable of abiogenisis and or macroevolution.

The fossil record does not support your point of view better than mine because of the God of the gaps issue. Actually it supports ID.

Claiming i dont understand the comlexity of microbiology as well as you when, i know why we have the nuclear forces and the constants that rule the quantum mechanics that provide the underlying order that provides the physical frame work for microbiology to work. Thats like telling an auto mechanic i dont have to understand how a crank shaft, pisons, cam shaft and valves work to get from california to new york, i just need to know where the gas cap and ignition switch is and how to read a map and drive. Ignorance is bliss till you forget to check the oil, score a piston and now you have to overhaul the engine to finish your trip.

Or is it sophomoric to understand the internal workings of an engine well enough so you can travel successfully.

SCIENCE provides ALL supportive evidence that evolution was a response driven, fairly mindless and directionless adaptational (and genetic drift driven) change in living beings.

NO EVIDENCE seems to support anything about ID. In fact, evidence contradicts anything about ID, such as "irreducible complexity" "specified information" "Sudden appearance" and anything that even suggests intelligence.
Why does life , as seen in the fossil record, seem to wander aimlessly as it either adapts to a new environment by exploiting available niches, OR (most often) just goes extinct?.

You said that you accept the role of natural selection , yet you seem to have a problem with mutations and recombination and coding mistakes providing the genome with new means for the coding of entirely new functions . You seem to be repeating Discovery Institute's mantras yet you and LF say that you dont carry any of their beliefs.
Seems to me that when you say the same things, in the same ways, and then claim that you are being totally scientific in your conclusions, I say "Who the hell you trying to bullshit"?? Im just not buying your casuistic "Science", its way too transparent.

They provide tons of evidence that micro evolution is mindless driven. They provide the fossil record as evdence that macro evolution is mindless driven when in reality an intelligence drivenfossil record looks exactly like the one we have. They assume the biologgical evolution from random mutations are possible because the biological system is capable of micro evolution wthout explaining how the system came into existence (beyond 13 unprovable speculations for abiogenisis).

If a sysrem is response driven how does it is a response driven system. We have no evidence that response driven systems just pop into existence from mindless directionless actions. Please provide evidence of that.

. Because elimination of the weak by natural selection is a mindless act of attrition. It works the same if the new information is introduced intelligently or randomly. Randomly introduced new information on the other hand is always unsuccessful in producing the new informatin necessarry to entirely new functions.



You have responded to that by saying the genome and the biological system of DNA is capable of storing information and then organizing it later as the new function is needed. That is artificial intelligence. That is a serious we complex algorithm that we cannot even replicate today with the computer. If I am wrong with that statement please provide the evidence.

I can turn a mountain of iron ore, coal, and a forest into a skyscraper with intelligence. That is a lot of proof that anything can happen with enough intelligence and physical ability.

I don't carry the discovery Institute's believe that a perfect God was the only guiding factor in the introduction of all the new information for natural evolution. (The Bible doesn't even say that.) Nor do I subscribe to their timetable. The universe is billions of years old and life is millions to billions of years old . A young earth is not supported by the bible or the fossil record and both are records of information containing the word of God and who ever helped him create the universe we observe.

Provde me evidence (besides the fossil record or your understanding of a complex system that is an example of artificial intelligence) where mindless directionless change led to an extremely complex system of artificial intelligence like natural evolution that led to your body. Because, like you said earlier, natural selection is not random, and random is a prerequisite of mindless and directionless.

Is there anyway science could consider ID and do research?

youve actually NOT read anything that the Discovery Institute has been self publishing have you?? (be honest).
So, you believe that the changes in environment and the "responses thereto by evolution or extinction" are actually planned and designed eh??

Then were back to my original question of which youve been avoiding like crazy. WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE??

Puhleeeze dont keep boring me with the me **** that "complexity is my proof" . That is total fact-free bullshit.

We have a fairly xtensive fossil record which you seem to now want to deny. We also have pseudogene retention and expression within extant genomes that give information (Pax gene structures between mammals and birds) The biggest features to us are between chimps and humans(chromosome 1 and 2 in humans and bonobos have diverged and humans hqve fused versions of 1 and 2). THEN (Tir-Na-Nog "pseudogenes " [NANOG GP8] have emerged in the human genome on chromosome 15 since the divergence). EBA-175 has coded for malarial immunity nd sickle cell disease in homozygous state. Humqns how over 200 "Human accelerated Regions" (HAR's) which are DNA sequences that turn off and on specific genes , including brqin and cognitive development.Genetic and physiologists have recognized that these HAR regions are associated with dietary exploitation of proteins (Stuff that monkeys dont bother with).
There are severl twns of dozens more of these pseudogene and genomic differences that have occured fter divergence.
So far, noone has even suggested some net data or testing that would suggest ID ("Complexity crap is just lazy thinking").
Id really love to see some good science and testing of ID thinking. Right now, I view it as mostly lazy man's thinking about how to avoid any real science homework.

I don't read discovery Institute because I don't subscribe to their ideas they don't work. They believe the only thing that could interpret the Bible is the Bible. That is ridiculous. The Bible has to be interpreted to fit the story of the universe. They are a misinterpreting the Bible so badly they will never understand how God used evolution over millions of years. Please quit lumping me in with them.

I also keep asking you for evidence of where the system came from and, you keep providing evidence that the system works. We both agree it works.

The only evidence I am going to be able to provide is, every complex system we observe coming into existence today is created by intelligence or, it is the result of a very complex system they came into existence so long ago, we cannot easily identify the intelligence that created that complex system. You say time solves a problem for random introduction, I say time and bigotry hides the identity of the designer.

Fortunately the designer stepped on to the earth 2000 years ago, billions of years after he started his work of designing.

Now here,just like the term"ITS ONLY A THEORY", youre miscasting by purposeful misunderstanding what "not random" means in science.

evolution is a two part phenom.
1Mutations nd gene accumulations provide a "random" derived mass of ways to code specific genes

natural selection, is an environmentally directed way that the gene complement with the best chance for survival in that environment, wins.

Its not random its a response to an environmental change on the planet.
Its not anagenetic either. There are many examples of organisms evolving to simpler or even parasitic forms.

. What evidence do we have that this evidence accumulation happened by purely random processes?

Can we replicate it?

What evidence do we have besides the fossil record and micro evolution that this is capable of macro evolution?

Is abiogenesis and macroevolution replicatable?

I can replicate intelligent design on a human scale, never will on a God scale

Must be able to control and manipulate too much information at once.

but there are people who have said they witnessed God creating life.

If you don't read them then don't tie them to things that they do not support.

For example, you said you don't agree with their young earth timeline. DI does not claim a young earth scenario and does not promote that in any way. In addition, none of their research is 'Bible based'. They never use scripture as any kind of evidence or basis for the theory of Intelligent Design. If any of it happens to agree with scripture, that does not mean that's what they use for reaching their conclusions. Don't buy into the falsehoods others make about the DI.

Just keep'n it real...

I stand corrected. Thank you.

Bacteria is a good example that most are familiar with.

Thats why I said That Im certain he knew NOTHING about Discovery Institute. There are many other ways to tie religious beliefs to DI without becoming biblical and Funamental.

Their preaching of the concept of "Sudden appearance" is a sort of Evangelical look at "science"

Yes we can. By uing "knock out mice" qe can remover small egments of genomes ansd doing it bit by gentic bit, we can see just what I said. No problem

we can see entire genera divide from their Mma genera and take on becoming ntirely new genera.In the brief times that animls with either
extremely short breeding times, or

extremely large productions of offspring per generation.

Cichlid fish and Percae fish, when isolated for as little as3- 400 yers have evolved into entirely new genera exploiting entirely new niches (carnivorous cichlids and vegetarian perch).

Species evolution have been seen in human lifetimes (finch evolution in the galapagos have been studied by a team from Princeton for about 45 years and theyve published about new species with the beginning of genetic division)

"Darwin comes to Town" lists a number of subspecies changes (micro evolution) and several macro as animals become adapted to major urban areas.

and there are people whove said they got into a fight with Sasquatch

I was fortunate to have visited the Galapagos Islands many decades ago, and saw the Darwin finches on the different islands. Their beaks evolved based on the food source of the island. That's evidence of evolution at work.