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Evolutionry/religious nonsense

 
 
jerlands
 
  0  
Reply Mon 15 Jan, 2018 03:36 pm
@farmerman,
Where else in nature can we natural law manifest?

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n629/jerlands/Fibonacci%20sequence.jpg

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n629/jerlands/shaving_fibonacci_spirals_t.jpg
0 Replies
 
jerlands
 
  0  
Reply Mon 15 Jan, 2018 03:50 pm
@farmerman,
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n629/jerlands/leonardo-da-vinci-vitruvian-man.jpg
0 Replies
 
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jan, 2018 04:55 pm
@brianjakub,
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n629/jerlands/Tutankhamun_jackal.jpg
0 Replies
 
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jan, 2018 05:30 pm
@farmerman,
jerlands wrote:
I propose a natural quartz crystal is a manifestation of atomic law. SiO2..

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n629/jerlands/Pure_Quartz_at_Senckenberg_Natural_History_Museum.jpg
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jan, 2018 06:46 pm
@jerlands,
http://quartzpage.de/gen_form.html
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jan, 2018 06:51 pm
@cicerone imposter,
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n629/jerlands/Eye_of_Horus_Right.svg.jpg
0 Replies
 
brianjakub
 
  0  
Reply Mon 15 Jan, 2018 06:53 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
IDers say they have successfully satisified a NON THEISTIC process. In order to get there, I read that youve adopted my " chemicals in response to laws of Chem, Physics nd eventually biology" pronouncement .

Im ok with that. Algorithms require a designer as a step function we dont see that happening in any of the evidence or DNA or the fossil record. AND therefore, since its kinda irrational to research the existence of "algorithms", its basically nonexistent to me and most of science .


So, laws like abiogenis, don't require a designer. How do you know that? What pattern are you comparing that to?

Quote:
Physical law
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is about the philosophy of scientific laws. For the scientific and mathematical aspects, see Laws of science.
A physical law or scientific law is a theoretical statement "inferred from particular facts, applicable to a defined group or class of phenomena, and expressible by the statement that a particular phenomenon always occurs if certain conditions be present."[1] Physical laws are typically conclusions based on repeated scientific experiments and observations over many years and which have become accepted universally within the scientific community. The production of a summary description of our environment in the form of such laws is a fundamental aim of science. These terms are not used the same way by all authors.


Physical laws are universal. That means we are assuming they are the same everywhere in the universe, without being able to test them everywhere in the universe.

You must imagine the universe from an objective frame of reference to do that and assume that it is a fact from our subjective point of view. I think that is a logical assumption and I am willing to take it on faith that it is true, since I can only imagine the part of the universe I am not measuring is the same because of a pattern of consistent measurment.

The problem is all patterns contain information, and all new modern information in the universe is being introduced by intelligence or is the result of a preexisting law. It appears that the difference between a law and an algorithm is that a law is so old it is very hard to determine the identity of the intelligence that organized the information into a pattern to establish the law.

Were there laws of physics in existence before matter and space were quantisized for quantum mechanics and gravity to be established?

If not, how were particles ordered into matter without laws, if matter is necessary for the laws to emerge?



Do you feel a need to answer that question?


brianjakub
 
  0  
Reply Mon 15 Jan, 2018 06:57 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Thanks for explaining the pattern we observe when quartz crystals are formed. Why does the pattern exist at all? Did quartz always exist, or did it have a beginning?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 06:30 am
@jerlands,
actually we learned crytal structure from Braggs Law, which is a component of ATOMIC THEORY
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 06:40 am
@brianjakub,
Quote:

So, laws like abiogenis, don't require a designer. How do you know that?
I dont, but it would be kinda stupid to try to do research that always keeps sending you back to a default "God did it, NEXT"

Id find that a total waste of time , but having said that, the evidence for designerlessness , is quite evident. (Unless your designer is a stupid , ADD one who only loves trying to stamp out life at all turns).

If you wish to try to play in that sandbox, when you come up with some REASONABLE evidence that isnt just a new way of xpressing incredulity at evolution , please let us know what youve got (AND DONT KEEP TRYING TO CONFLATE COSMOGENESIS an QUANTUM MECHANICS TO BIOLOGY).


farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 08:19 am
@brianjakub,
Quote:
Were there laws of physics in existence before matter and space were quantisized for quantum mechanics and gravity to be established?
REALLY? If a tree falls in the forest but noone is around to hear, does it still make a sound?
LAWS NEED TO BE DISCOVERED. e didnt create the phenom by deriving the law.
I imagine that physical laws are universal, but so what? If they vary (due to some "sectoral constant"), we shall have to discover that constant and devise the bases for why they differ for each sector of the galaxy or universe.

Science is silent but not indecipherable
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 11:30 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

actually we learned crytal structure from Braggs Law, which is a component of ATOMIC THEORY

Ok.. let's get our words right.. Theory is basically man's attempt at explaining away natural phenomena?
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 01:16 pm
@farmerman,
The sound of silence. I really think this discussion on Evolutionary/religious nonsense needs to head into another direction. I mean.. how do we want to live? In richness or poverty? But then.. what is richness anyway?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 04:18 pm
@jerlands,
"theory" i often a BODY of data and evidence that explains a phenomenon. All the evidence and data support the theory and NO evidence refutes it.

A LAW is usually a formalscientific explanation of a natural occurence which is most often presented in an equation. Braggs Law is an equation that explains how a crystal
splits and diffracts x rays (k alpha 2 radiation ) in a fixed spatial angle . Each angle is unique to the crystal chemistry. The LAW OF SUPERPOSITION, LAW OF EQUAL VOLUMES (Lindgrens Law), theres a whole baggage train of laws.
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 04:32 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

"theory" i often a BODY of data and evidence that explains a phenomenon. All the evidence and data support the theory and NO evidence refutes it.

A LAW is usually a formalscientific explanation of a natural occurence which is most often presented in an equation. Braggs Law is an equation that explains how a crystal
splits and diffracts x rays (k alpha 2 radiation ) in a fixed spatial angle . Each angle is unique to the crystal chemistry. The LAW OF SUPERPOSITION, LAW OF EQUAL VOLUMES (Lindgrens Law), theres a whole baggage train of laws.


Ok.. so... does a natural quartz crystal manifest atomic law? Or are you saying there's just too many of 'em to count?
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 04:58 pm
@jerlands,
the chemitry part of how crystal axes occur wrt the chemistry is part of atomic THEORY, there really is no" Atomic Law".
If you keep using these interchangeably you are being stubbornly ignorant. If you want to be recalled as such, knock yerself out.
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 05:05 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

the chemitry part of how crystal axes occur wrt the chemistry is part of atomic THEORY, there really is no" Atomic Law".
If you keep using these interchangeably you are being stubbornly ignorant. If you want to be recalled as such, knock yerself out.

Well then I'm confused about what "Law" is...
Merriam Webster wrote:
Definition of law
1 a (1) : a binding custom or practice of a community : a rule of conduct or action prescribed (see prescribe 1a) or formally recognized as binding or enforced by a controlling authority (2) : the whole body of such customs, practices, or rules The courts exist to uphold, interpret, and apply the law. (3) : common law
b (1) : the control brought about by the existence or enforcement of such law preserved law and order in the town (2) : the action of laws considered as a means of redressing wrongs; also : litigation
developed the habit of going to law over the slightest provocation —H. A. Overstreet
(3) : the agency of or an agent of established law When he saw that the fighting was escalating, he called in the law.
c : a rule or order that it is advisable or obligatory to observe a law of self-preservation
d : something compatible with or enforceable by established law The decrees were judged not to be law and were therefore rescinded.
e : control, authority The child submits to no law.
2 a often capitalized : the revelation of the will of God set forth in the Old Testament
b capitalized : the first part of the Jewish scriptures : pentateuch, torah — see bible table
3 : a rule of construction or procedure the laws of poetry
4 : the whole body of laws relating to one subject criminal law probate law
5 a : the legal profession studied for a career in law
b : law as a department of knowledge : jurisprudence
c : legal knowledge a man with much history but little law
6 a : a statement of an order or relation of phenomena that so far as is known is invariable under the given conditions a law of thermodynamics Boyle's law
b : a general relation proved or assumed to hold between mathematical or logical expressions


To relate this to something... I'm assuming there are certain rules, laws that are followed let's say in the laboratory growth of quartz crystal?
0 Replies
 
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 05:18 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

there really is no" Atomic Law".

What is SiO2? I think you're gonna say it's a chemical equation? Isn't it a symbolic representation of the way two atoms or elements interact.
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 05:33 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

stubbornly ignorant.

Without nitpicking it to death, just simply looking at a quartz crystal can't you see that it's a natural expression of law and order?
0 Replies
 
brianjakub
 
  2  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 05:38 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
I dont, but it would be kinda stupid to try to do research that always keeps sending you back to a default "God did it, NEXT"

Id find that a total waste of time , but having said that, the evidence for designerlessness , is quite evident. (Unless your designer is a stupid , ADD one who only loves trying to stamp out life at all turns).


I am intelligent and I create things daily. I am not God. I don't know why you and I are intelligent, or how our intelligence emerged out of a bunch of flesh and nerves in our ancestors bodies.

I just know that when I make an intelligent decision to create something of importance I do it for a reason.

Quote:
Id find that a total waste of time , but having said that, the evidence for designerlessness , is quite evident. (Unless your designer is a stupid , ADD one who only loves trying to stamp out life at all turns).


I don't assume mine or anybody elses decision to create something is a waste of time, I assume the opposite.

Quote:

If you wish to try to play in that sandbox, when you come up with some REASONABLE evidence that isnt just a new way of xpressing incredulity at evolution.


I don't express incredulity with evolution. Initiation of matter, the laws of physics, and abioigenis that are necessary for evolution to happen (which I do believe happened is what I have a little incredulity with because I haven't seen it replicated, and it goes against all observable patterns.

0 Replies
 
 

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