Tsunami Relief: The Real Story

ryke-youve answered my own point about the US military and the Abe in particular.
ITS not even on station yet .

the small microfiltration plants that can make 20 to 50 gpm clean water out of river water are available technology made in germany, UK, US, JAPAN etc. These things could be airlifted TO the point of need and hooked up as modular units. They are about as big as a minivan and can be airdropped even.

We sent the task force because somebody thought it a good idea and I believe it was in "the neighborhood"

. In the US the AIr Mobilitty commaand is most set up for rapid deploy of materiell and technical assistance.

If we want ships, we have tons of freighters and tankers.

We can steam clean, line a tanker with PVC, fill it with water from NY reservoirs in about 2 days and purify it while en route.

BUT m ost of te peoplee would be dead or dysentaric by the time tthose supplies arrived.

The non use of the Air Mobility Command is someting I find of quesstionable sense.

I wish I were in charge.

AS far as meds, THIS IS AN EMERGENCY, velocity of delivery is as important as amount. We could mobilize C5-As to the Maldives or even the Arabian Peninsula and then furhter re- distribute with terrain landing C 130s.

I still believe that this admin was 'on vacation" and didnt really kick in with any emergency rapid deployment.

So thewas sent in to plan and that is what they came up with.

if you think otherwise, maybe its a good thing we both arent incharge.

As far as ad-hominems , youve been closer than anyone at being an ad-ominem dropper, but we are all passionate about our points. so we can disagree without questioning the intelligence of each other.

Im glad to be proven wrong many times but, part of my business involves getting mining supplies to weird places in short contractual periods, and that includes cleaan- water making equipment

rykehaven--

Your Google link told me I'm not authorized to see the site. Is it a military site?

sounds like youre in the thick of it then. My personal best wishes andthanks for you bein there . But answer me, was the AMC even thought of before the Abe?

sounds like youre in the thick of it then. My personal best wishes andthanks for you bein there . But answer me, was the AMC even thought of before the Abe?

Hello. I don't want to be a nuisance, but I thought I'd drop in a little.

There seems to be alot made of the amount of aid in dollar and euro sums. It's the most common method used in the mass media and elsewhere for some reason or another. And unfortunately, it's now being used by countries to brow-beat each other in a political game that has taken the attention off of what is happening in the affected region.

I'm afraid it's also the most inaccurate method to judge relief aid, articularly the IMMEDIATE relief aid which encompasses everthing that has been done and talked about to this point, which also includes this thread. I heard someone mention that the French were sending thousands of cakes to the Tsunami-affected area. It's a pleasant idea, really, but not very helpful. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the French personally, and the fact that they are thinking about helping the unfortunate during the holiday season is commendable.

But food per se is really not at issue here. Let me explain: When the Tsunami hit this past Christmas season, the clock was ticking. The question became: How do we get supplies into the affected region and what supplies should they be? The answer, you may be surprised to hear, was determined a long time ago. Countries within the region and especially without, to greater and lesser degrees, have prepared for these disasters for a long time, whether those disasters are natural (like the Tsunami) or man-made (war).

What supplies?

French cakes are delicious, I'm sure, but I don't think they're very robust. The catch-phrase in this respect is "perishable". Cakes would spoil long before they arrived in Asia, and thus, will probably not be sent. But dehydrated foods, which can be packaged, shipped and easily prepared (Ready-to-Eat) are the obvious answer. Rice is the favorite food aid for this very reason and, as it happens, the US has stockpiled it in warehouses and storage sites (ready to ship and near a port) throughout the world. The Phillipines is the closest to this Disaster Area, I believe. Ready-made shelters, watercatchers and containers and what-not are also in the usual inventory. I've posted some information about this in another thread (Tsunami Relief: The Real Story) if you'd like to drop on by.

So it's not a question, really, of a shortage of "supply". That was taken care of a long time ago with the advent of the World's Breadbasket. The real question: How do we get supplies into the affected region? is the one everyone always ignores. They concentrate on "top this" rhetoric. It's degrading, useless, and often self-absorbed. Most people probably don't know what the vast majority of the money that is donated is used for - or SHOULD be used for (more on that later): TRANSPORT. Shipping whether by Air or Sea/Freight. Even the relief workers, who need all their survival gear, comms, and HQ equipment have to find some way of getting into the affected area.

Does it take alot of money?

You betcha.

Does it take alot of time?

Aggonizingly so, especially when you're time-constrained by the tenants of exposed hungry and thirsty adults and children who aren't very hardy in disaster conditions.

Can you charter a merchant fleet to bring the supplies from the nearest and most plentiful source of Outside Aid (Phillipines)?

Yes, but there's never enough of a fleet. You have to hire a contracter, choose the ship, go through the bureaucracy (such as getting the vessel's contracter to give up his previous lucrative arrangements and *greed*), get the ship to the Phillipines, onload as much food as possible, have the ship to steam to any number of affected areas (alot) and off-load the cargo onto the pier. And I won't explain how you're going to then get the food to the extended area and distribute and manage it, let alone protect it from looters who will do things like sell it at inflated prices to the hungry.

By the time you do all that, provided you've planned and executed correctly, days, probably weeks have gone by, and ---- how many people, most likely children, will die?

So you need a stop-gap until the logistics can ramp up. In fact the entire relief effort is a stop-gap, but you need another gap in front of that stop-gap.

What does this have to do with the "How many Dollars/Euros have YOU contributed?" discussion?

Simple. The VAST MAJORITY of the money everyone's talking about has not had a scintilla of an iota of a smidgeon of an effect on the areas we're talking about. The VAST MAJORITY of the groups and the aid workers actually working in the region DO NOT draw upon the funds you're talking about. They may in the future, but they operate independently without it. How do I know this? Because I've had to work with these Aid workers before, and so have many of my co-workers. Working in a Third World country, even in the nice "tourist" areas are usually quite unpleasant. Working Aid Relief in a Third World Country AFTER a disaster hits it is the pits. And the lifeline of getting supplies into the region is an understudied NIGHTMARE.

Want to discuss the two most effective stop-gaps in the world?

I'll write about it in the "Tsunami Relief: The Real Story" thread if anyone asks...

OK, I'm asking...

I donated to the Red Cross. Using the power of the Internet, I tracked the donation and discovered one of the aid workers used my money to buy a surfboard.

cjhsa wrote:

I donated to the Red Cross. Using the power of the Internet, I tracked the donation and discovered one of the aid workers used my money to buy a surfboard.

We can't do such here, I mean tracking down individual money.

And I wonder not only how that aid worker got this surfboard (the infrastructure obviously is okay then), but especially, how he managed to do thus, while his/her comrades are working 24/24.

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Hi Ryke and welcome to the forum.

I think the problem AGAIN, was a lack of leadership. The original offer of $15 million in aid was a complete joke and an insult to the rest of the world. We should have been the LEAD in this tragedy, and being the one and only superpower, we have a humanitarian right to do so. Then I had to listen to the president say the UN official "needed to check his facts" and tried to defend his initial petty offer. It was an absolute joke and a disgrace.

Again, what is argued here is Form over Substance. I'd rather leave this politicking to someone else and concentrate on what is happening RIGHT NOW. I consider the arguement a red herring. Many countries started small amounts, then ramped up, presumably because no one KNEW what the damage was, waited for the information to come in, and made their estimates. But I don't know that, and, barring any convincing evidence on what happened, I don't think anybody really does.

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As for the UN, again they are the leaders of the relief effort. THey started airlifting supplies on the 29th and they are continuing to do so.

Now we're talking. THIS is something that pertains to WHAT is going on. It is information that can be checked and verified.

And I can say that you're misinformed. Let me explain:

The UN DOES NOT HAVE ANY AIRLIFT CAPACITY. NONE.

During Bosnia and other conflicts, many countries contributed their troops to "peacekeeping". Even the fighters that bombed Serbia were ostensibly called "UN forces" or "UN-backed Forces". But how did these forces come to be? There are no training garrisons for UN troops. No bootcamps or supply depots or shipyards to build "UN Ships". No Hangar construction bays to build or maitain the "UN Fighter bombers". It's all myth.'

Where did these phantom forces come from?

You guessed it. The US Forces painted a UN flag on their equipment or donned "blue berets". And that was the extent of the UN's military contribution. They took credit for the action while bureaucrats fiddled in air-conditioned buildings, ordering more UN flags to hang on Humvees or berets to stencils to paint "UN Warship". Other militaries in the coalition did the same thing, but no one had any illusions about who those forces belonged to. Some people do have such illusions, though.

The difference now, I think, is that the UN is taking credit in an operation without telling the operator. They're grandstanding as usual, but without permission and proper acknowledgement to the real benefactors.

BTW, the rest of the world's military airlift doesn't have anything on the US Airforce. NONE. And that is probably the outfit from which the UN is taking credit for, because that is the only one that could possibly take this mission right now. http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/2004/nr20041228-1905.html

It's one of the things that doesn't make the UN's behaviour surprising, as described in the very first post of this thread.

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You need to look at both sides of the argument, the sites you visit daily are propaganda machines put out by the RNC to brainwash people. Articles such as you posted, only look at one side of the story, distort the facts and present an acute point of view.

I do take both sides, Thank you, sir. I find your characterization of the situation wanting, and your characterization of me insulting.

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You really need to go to the horses mouth to find out what is going on.

This is a horrible situation and now it appears there may be upwards of 500K dead since there have been entire villages wiped out. We need to help and help fast.

With all due respect, I have been in the horse's mouth, and it's not pleasant. Ever been to Pattie's and Sarie's sports bar? No? Must have been a nice tourist spot until it got turned into a crater with all that stench of decomposing Aussies. In fact, the bomber was actually aiming for the American sailors, who visited the bar before, but I wouldn't know that, having never gotten it from the horse's mouth. The Aussies did, so they still think they were the target. (Do you know what decomposing flesh smells like? I can't quite describe it )

rykehaven: I don't know if anyone mentioned it to you, but as a general rule you should feel free to speak your mind within the terms of service, respond to those you care to and most importantly ignore whomever you want. No thinking person will blame you if you ignore excessively long, hyper-partisan attacks. No one.

Thank you for both your service and your valuable insight on this board.