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White nationalist shot at protesters after Richard Spencer speech in Florida

 
 
Olivier5
 
  5  
Reply Thu 26 Oct, 2017 09:23 pm
Thanks A2K. Good arbitration. Maybe now we can return to the issue of free speech? As I explained, it cannot be an absolute right or value, not even in the US, simply because there exist OTHER VALUES AND RIGHTS, with which free speech sometimes collides. For instance, public safety: if and when free speech may lead to a loss of human lives, it ought to be curtailed.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  4  
Reply Thu 26 Oct, 2017 11:02 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote Finn to Olivier5:
Quote:
That's very forgiving of you, Marshall Petain, because my regard for you is anything but "love."

At least Petain only reluctantly took the job of installing the policies of a foreign totalitarian government because his country was already defeated militarily. Trump enthusiastically took the job of installing Putin's policies because he likes the fame. That's even worse.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Fri 27 Oct, 2017 10:33 am
@Blickers,
Are you really comparing (unfavorably) Trump to Petain?
Olivier5
 
  4  
Reply Fri 27 Oct, 2017 11:12 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
I don't speak for Blickers, but you compared me to Petain, which is even more ridiculous.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Fri 27 Oct, 2017 11:22 am
@Olivier5,
Well, most certainly Finn was just referring to "The Lion of Verdun".
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Oct, 2017 11:29 am
@Walter Hinteler,
LOL...
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Oct, 2017 02:30 pm
Get ready for a redux.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwinpsCu0pHXAhVl7IMKHZunAlwQqQIIJygAMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fabcnews.go.com%2FUS%2Ftennessee-towns-bracing-upcoming-white-nationalist-rallies%2Fstory%3Fid%3D50766204&usg=AOvVaw1lR5UQPUwk3IeS4RZU6Rtb
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Oct, 2017 08:03 pm
@Olivier5,
A matter of opinion
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Fri 27 Oct, 2017 08:23 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
If that's true, then it's also a matter of opinion that you are similar to Hitler... or that Trump is worse than Petain.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Fri 27 Oct, 2017 10:29 pm
In the United States, the right of free speech is limited--first in that it only applies to public places; you cannot claim an absolute right of speech on private property. More importantly, free speech can be limited when there is "a clear and present danger that they [the words prohibited) will bring about the substantive evils that the United States Congress has a right to prevent."--in the words of Oliver Wendell Holmes. Speech which encourages criminality or incites violence can be restricted.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Sat 28 Oct, 2017 09:34 am
@Olivier5,
True
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Sun 29 Oct, 2017 06:25 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
I don't think it makes much sense to compare you with Hitler or me to Pétain. I'm not a Pétiniste and you're not a Nazi. Stating these sorts of things helps score Goodwin points on the Internet but they also trivialize Nazism.
pkathrine98
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 09:30 am
@Olivier5,
Throughout America there is racism happening all around us. This can happen at work, in the class room, and even during weekly grocery shopping. This is why many support groups like Black Lives Matter have come into effect. While there are support groups out there for people being discriminated, there are many groups that are doing the discriminating. These groups include the KKK, white supremacist, and everyday people who hate on African Americans. This shows that more people every day are beginning to discriminate against blacks. “About eight-ten blacks (81%) say racism is a big problem in society, compared with about half of whites (52%) (Neal). The amount of racism that these African Americans are facing is tremendously severe.
Racism that goes on in the United States, or anywhere in fact, should be reputed. Americans who see this racism happening know that it is not okay. Even though they know racism isn’t right, they continue to avoid anything that has to do with it or they get involved in the act itself. As we look back into when Martin Luther King Jr. spoke up against racism happening around him, he states that “Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that” (Rivers). When people tend to look at racism, they think that discriminating the people they don’t agree with is the right route to go. These types of actions, such as discrimination, only make matter worse. This is because it can cause African Americans to look at themselves as if they don’t belong. This can also be a problem and can drive these people being called different names and acted differently into depression, or even worse, suicide.
The other side of racism is that it doesn’t happen. As white Americans don’t go through much discrimination, they don’t see it happening around them. This makes them believe that Black Lives Matter and other support groups are just ways to give African Americans attention. They believe that the acts of the Treyvon Martin and the police shootings are ways to get African Americans to be looked up to. They think that these cases are to make cops look like they are bad people for trying to do their job.
While both sides are being presented, “An overwhelming majority of blacks (88%) say the country needs to continue making changes for blacks to have equal rights with whites, but 43% are skeptical that such changes will ever occur” (Center). It is sad to see that these African Americans, the ones who are being discriminated against, believe that their own country will not change. These are the people that have experienced discrimination and are trying to overcome the people that doubt them just because they are black. About “Four-in-ten whites believe the country will eventually make the changes needed for blacks to have equal rights, and about the same share (38%) say enough changes have already been made” (Center). The saddest part is that only 40% of white Americans believe that these changes will occur. In order to make a stand, we have to take action. If the African American population can’t do it by themselves, we can all work together to make an effort.
Olivier5
 
  3  
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 11:51 am
@pkathrine98,
Welcome to a2k.

I agree with a lot of what you say. One thing i'm uneasy about is the casual use of terms like "black" and "white". There's no such thing in biology. Races are social constructs. Obama for intance is not objectively "black": he is a metis. In fact we are all metis, to a degree or another.

Moreover, a random Luo (the ethnicity of Obama's father if memory serves, from Kenya) would be genetically very different from, say, a random Wolof from Senegal. There are much genetic differences within South-Saharan Africans, so lumping them all in one "race" makes no biological sense. Same with the "whites": a random Fin might be genetically quite different from a random Spaniard.
pkathrine98
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 02:52 pm
@Olivier5,
For the purpose of the statistics that I was giving, I was grouping white individuals together and black individuals together. This makes interviewing a lot easier than to say if I was only going to interview people that were "metis" and "Fins". This also shows the purpose of what racism is doing to these individuals alike.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 03:01 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
In fact we are all metis, to a degree or another.


yikes

don't say that in Canada. we've had Supreme Court cases on the precise definition of Metis and the debate is on the other side of heated

24 minutes from The Current today

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-november-1-2017-1.4380426/canada-s-métis-population-on-the-rise-why-some-métis-leaders-find-this-very-concerning-1.4380595
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 03:03 pm
@pkathrine98,
pkathrine98 wrote:

For the purpose of the statistics that I was giving, I was grouping white individuals together and black individuals together.


how are you defining white and black? are you defining people?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 03:16 pm
@Olivier5,
Your finest hour
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 07:31 pm
@pkathrine98,
Understood. I am just worried about how societies and people tend to "reify" what are very nebulous concepts. We're all one species.

But yeah, it's true that as a general rule, the darker your skin, the more negative discrimination you can expect in western societies.

It doesn't stop at black/white: among "whites", blonds are frequently given an advantage over dark haired for instance, and within "blacks" there often are discriminations based on fairness of skin.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 09:11 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Thanks, appreciated.
0 Replies
 
 

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