14
   

Me Too

 
 
Olivier5
 
  0  
Fri 12 Jan, 2018 12:51 am
@maxdancona,
So this thing kills now. Oh well. Who cares about due process, huh?
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Fri 12 Jan, 2018 08:52 am
@Olivier5,
A human being commits suicide after being bullied and run off from his job based on unsubstantiated rumors.... and your concern is that because he is dead, that we will never find out of the rumors are true. Do you realize how disturbing this is?

Do you think justice would require something more to be done to him. When this ideological narrative becomes more important than human life itself... you might consider that it has gone too far.

A man died. What more do you want.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Fri 12 Jan, 2018 11:46 am
This is a brief excerpt from a much longer article.

Quote:
In a post-Harvey Weinstein and #MeToo world, most people are well aware sexual harassment occurs in the workplace. But across the US, women are subjected to it in a far more intimate setting - their homes.

Every year, hundreds of state and federal civil lawsuits are filed against landlords, property owners, building superintendents and maintenance workers alleging persistent, pervasive sexual harassment and misconduct, covering everything from sexual remarks to rape. This includes so-called "quid pro quo" sexual harassment, wherein the perpetrator demands sex in exchange for rent or repairs.

"In employment, you leave. It's horrible, but you can leave and go home," says Kelly Clarke, a supervising lawyer at the Fair Housing Project of Legal Aid of North Carolina. "This is somebody who can invade your home."

Martisha Coleman, a young mother who brought a case against her landlord in East St Louis, Illinois, says after repeatedly rebuffing advances, she became so scared of him that she started pushing her bed against the door at night. She says he retaliated when she wasn't home. (The case is awaiting a judge's ruling.)

"He unlocked my door, came inside my house, looked through my items and left a five-day eviction [notice] on my bed."

Situations like Coleman's are virtually unstudied. There has never been a comprehensive national survey of tenants to track the frequency of sexual harassment in housing, or to determine where or to whom it occurs most often. Most advocates and experts believe poor women and women of colour are disproportionately affected, though that is based mainly on experiential evidence and a single, 30-year-old study. Advocates say victims who are undocumented or who do not speak English are also easy targets, as are women fleeing domestic violence.

The lack of affordable housing stock in major American cities compounds the desperate circumstances renters can find themselves in. A single eviction can preclude victims from huge swathes of the public and private housing market.

"The link is vulnerability and poverty," says Kate Sablosky Elengold, a clinical associate law professor at University of North Carolina who prosecuted sexual harassment cases for the justice department's civil rights division. "The risk to a woman standing up against it is homelessness."



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42404270
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  0  
Fri 12 Jan, 2018 11:54 am
@maxdancona,
On the contrary, i've been saying for weeks that #MeToo, however well intentioned and useful, was wide open to risks of trial by tweets and political manipulation, and that due process was necessary before banning people from their jobs, the airwaves or politics. I'm as appaled by this guy's suicide as you are.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Fri 12 Jan, 2018 12:03 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
due process was necessary


due process would also mean continuing investigations after suicides etc
ehBeth
 
  2  
Fri 12 Jan, 2018 12:05 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
that due process was necessary before banning people from their jobs, the airwaves or politics.


I don't understand why it's not the norm elsewhere for people to step down/take leaves once accusations have been made. It's been the standard here on the political front for at least 30 years when there are accusations of financial wrongdoing etc. Accusations re sexual abuse etc should be considered no less important.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Fri 12 Jan, 2018 12:07 pm
Up until the Me Too movement, due process all too often trampled a woman's right to justice. Balance has to be the goal, but it likely will never be to everyone's satisfaction.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Fri 12 Jan, 2018 12:09 pm
@ehBeth,
Exactly.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Fri 12 Jan, 2018 12:15 pm
@Olivier5,
I was appalled when Nihm implied that the reason this loss of life was tragic was because the guy couldn't have been shamed more first.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Fri 12 Jan, 2018 12:20 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
It's been the standard here on the political front for at least 30 years when there are accusations of financial wrongdoing etc. Accusations re sexual abuse etc should be considered no less important.


This isn't true. Unfounded accusation of financial wrongdoing have never ended a political career. Bill Clinton, for example did just fine. As did John McCain and Maxine Waters. If EhBeth calls for the firing of Maxine Waters, I will commend her for being ideologically consistent.

What is happening now, where people are being ruined based only on allegations, hasn't happened since the Joe McCarthy witch hunts.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Fri 12 Jan, 2018 12:20 pm
@ehBeth,
Yes, the motive of his suicide remains unknown, and should be investigated: was he rightly scared for his reputation, having done some illegal or ultra-rude acts; or was he manipulated by somebody for political or other motives, somebody who found a few people ready to falsely accuse him (or exagerate the importance of something), under the cover of anonymity, to ruin his career?
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Fri 12 Jan, 2018 12:22 pm
@Olivier5,
He committed suicide because he was slut shamed.

If a woman had committed suicide after being publicly humiliated, no one would be calling for her name to be further dragged through the mud after her death.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Fri 12 Jan, 2018 12:23 pm
@maxdancona,
Apologies accepted... err wait.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Fri 12 Jan, 2018 12:25 pm
@nimh,
nimh wrote:
Meanwhile, the accusations are now understood to have involved three women, but they seem forgotten in the whole story. I guess their allegations will never be investigated -- and if they were true, they won't find justice.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Fri 12 Jan, 2018 12:26 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
was he manipulated by somebody for political or other motives, somebody who found a few people ready to falsely accuse him (or exagerate the importance of something), under the cover of anonymity, to ruin his career?


honestly - if this was the case - or a possibility - media would be all over it ... because .... man
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Fri 12 Jan, 2018 12:26 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

nimh wrote:
Meanwhile, the accusations are now understood to have involved three women, but they seem forgotten in the whole story. I guess their allegations will never be investigated -- and if they were true, they won't find justice.



Thanks EhBeth.

In context, Nihm is talking about a man who was publicly shamed and then took his own life. What a pity he couldn't have been shamed more.

Other than losing his reputation and his life... I don't know what justice you seek.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Fri 12 Jan, 2018 12:28 pm
@Olivier5,
The accusations by the women should continue to be investigated. Way too much sweeping under the carpet is accepted, condoned, praised.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Fri 12 Jan, 2018 12:32 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

The accusations by the women should continue to be investigated. Way too much sweeping under the carpet is accepted, condoned, praised.


If the women were lying or exaggerating, would they be held accountable for this man's death?

Be careful what you wish for. You want more of this man's blood (even after his death). His accusers might have a different point of view.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Fri 12 Jan, 2018 12:32 pm
@maxdancona,
If I were in Whitewall, I would like to know if someone has manipulated (and potentially still is manipulating) UK politics by throwing dirt at UK politicians, killing careers in the process, and now killing an actual life. If I were his wife (or if my wife had taken her life in similar circumstances, if that's more realistic), I might wish to know why my partner had to die such an awful death.

maxdancona
 
  -1  
Fri 12 Jan, 2018 12:34 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

If I were in Whitewall, I would like to know if someone has manipulated (and potentially still is manipulating) UK politics by throwing dirt at UK politicians, killing careers in the process, and now killing an actual life. If I were his wife (or if my wife had taken her life in similar circumstances, if that's more realistic), I might wish to know why my partner had to die such an awful death.




I agree Olivier. I don't think EhBeth will be very happy if she finds that these women were part of the bullying that ended this man's life.
0 Replies
 
 

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