Rumsfeld tells critics to sit on it.

That's crap.

I am very liberal and am a registered Independent.

You cannot see beyond the blinders of your own party line.

I used to be a Democrat, but they became Republicans. I was NEVER a Republican.

oft times one adds incredients when stirring the pot.

Forever -- Have only seen you through two threads and you seem extremely right of center to me.

Quick to judge, aren't you? Can't tolerate ambiguity or just fast on the trigger?

Like FY...I am a registered Independent (large "I").

Like FY...I was once a Democrat.

Unlike FY...I am not a liberal. I just happen to be a person who formerly was a Democrat and presently is a registered Independent...who thinks that American conservatism is the scummiest political philosophy that has ever polluted our planet.

I smell a steel cage death match in the making.....

I'll bring the jello....Frank you bring some folding chairs....hot damn!!! Holiday entertainment....

Frank -- I n the copying process, it looks like plainoldme asked you what you are politically.

American conservatism is scummy. Ugh!!!! The thing I hate the most about it is how its followers twist the truth. Richard Perle's response to criticism of Rumsfeld by several leading Republicans is the classic example. He acknowledged three different critics (there were more) and under valued their prominence and pretended there were only three.

BPB -- Like braless mudwrestling, eh, bear?

topless...even better....

You refer to yourself in the 3rd person? Too funny!

Let's shed some tears for the poor, misunderstood Rummy.



Learning from his boss, he's trotting out the tried and tested "but it's hard work" whine.

Well, how about we save our tears for the troops that are dying because Bush and Rumsfeld didn't think enough of them to ensure they were properly armored? Or send enough troops to stabilize Iraq? Or prepped them to be showered with rose petals rather than IEDs?

Rumsfeld couldn't even be bothered to sign the death letters to the families of those who paid the ultimate sacrifice. He let a machine do the dirty work.

But it's all about him....

Rumsfeld is hardly a whiner. Perhaps it's just your personal desire to see him go that you mistake his message as "whining".

I've heard that Al Frankin has the ability to make everyone around him whine.

And I've heard you get petty and personal every single time one of your heroes is shown to be a fraud.

This regular and consistent digression into personal attacks is beneath you. You're more than capable of advancing an argument, except when it involves defending the indefensible.

Rummy's not only a whiner; he's the biggest fuckup in a Cabinet full of 'em.

Why don't you give it a break for the holidays (or absent that ability, get some more defensible heroes).

Rums being set up. The key words in this admin is "hes got my full support" That means that hes a toasted bagel by Groundhog day.

7 to 5 . Good god hes 8o f*in 5 years old. His idea of high tech is a trebouchet.

This Marine has an axe to grind, but some salient points nevertheless:

Risks I accepted in Iraq then, I don't accept now
Former Marine officer: No excuse for 'war on the cheap'
By ANDREW M. BORENE


"When I invaded Iraq nearly two years ago, I understood that it was an invasion on short notice and I was willing to accept the risk inherent in beginning combat operations without body armor inserts and in a Humvee with no doors that was left over from the Persian Gulf War.

It was, after all, a new war, and we went with what we had. But last month, our warriors in Iraq invaded Fallujah, at times driving trucks and Humvees without upgraded armor kits.

We have been in this war for 20 months. We are the greatest, wealthiest nation on Earth. How can we deliver billions of dollars in welfare to corporations, farmers and other groups and seek to make tax cuts for the wealthy permanent when our troops need equipment and services overseas?

What is American about putting the well-being of the wealthy over the well-being of the defenders of freedom? Have the people who once appeared to convince a majority of Americans that Saddam Hussein had a hand in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction also convinced America that we can run a "war on the cheap" without seeing our troops suffer?

The violence and intensity of the combat is higher today than during the invasion, but the wounded survive in exponentially higher numbers, requiring services for lost limbs and eyesight. This "low" killed-in-action statistic is misleading Americans, but some politicians talk about the successes in Iraq and an improving situation.

Young heroes display physical courage on the front lines in the global war on terror, yet even as our troops accomplish mission after harrowing mission, our politicians fail them.

It's time to demand that our politicians stand up and show some moral courage, as did Army Spc. Thomas Wilson in Kuwait before Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld.

Supporting the troops means more than placing a yellow sticker on a vehicle's bumper. It also means buying up-armored Humvees and small arms protective vest inserts in body armor, offering the best training in the world and reducing excessive deployments of the Reserves and National Guard. These things cost money.

It will take a new generation of great Americans to turn around the devastation that the continued failures and excuses of this administration have caused.

It will take Americans who aren't afraid of the truth, Americans who understand that sometimes success requires sacrifice, Americans who put thoughtful decision-making before dogmatic political mantras.

We have a lot of work to do before our troops, veterans and their families get what they deserve, and it has nothing to do with party politics. It's about taking care of those who take care of us.

Young men and women are fighting for us as I write, but who is fighting for them?

If every concerned American wrote the members of Congress who put tax cuts for the wealthy before troop welfare, demanding that our veterans and soldiers be given their due, perhaps we could make some headway honoring America's contract with its veterans.

May our political leaders show their thanks and take responsibility for their decisions by taking care of those who protect us all."

Borene, an adviser to Operation Truth, a veterans organization, is president of the National Security and Law Society at the University of Minnesota. He was an intelligence officer with the 1st Marine Division during the invasion of Iraq.

That's a keeper.