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Gungasnake's "Evolution is Bunk" Digression

 
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2004 04:14 pm
The Wabbit wrote:
Think yer wasting yer peckin' on the thread progenitor, though

Havin' fun ain't my idea of wastin' time - and you know me - lemme get ahold of a notion that amuses me and I'm real likely to play with it a while before tirin' of it. I've even been known to come back to one I've set aside a while Mr. Green

Einherjar wrote:
... fascinating

Prolly only to folks who've acquired certain skills ... such as thinkin' :wink:


ehBeth wrote:
has the gsnake ever answered any of your questions?

Not so's I've noticed ... 'less ya consider repeated resort to absurdity, misinformation and logical fallacy "Answers". Some folks inevitably will have a problem with that, though; that stuff's pretty much all some have to work with, so they hold it kinda dear Rolling Eyes
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2004 04:27 pm
What, so the oceans didn't come from Mars? I'm suing Art Bell... :wink:
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2004 04:28 pm
timberlandko wrote:

.....the answer is DNA...


Quote:

"At that moment, when the DNA/RNA system became understood, the debate between Evolutionists and Creationists should have come to a screeching halt

I.L. Cohen, Researcher and Mathematician
Member NY Academy of Sciences
Officer of the Archaeological Inst. of America
Darwin Was Wrong - A Study in Probabilities
New Research Publications, 1984, p. 4


In other words, the theory of evolution should have been abandoned, it being obvious that something like DNA could not evolve.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2004 06:20 pm
Mr Snake wrote:
Quote:

"At that moment, when the DNA/RNA system became understood, the debate between Evolutionists and Creationists should have come to a screeching halt

I.L. Cohen, Researcher and Mathematician
Member NY Academy of Sciences
Officer of the Archaeological Inst. of America
Darwin Was Wrong - A Study in Probabilities
New Research Publications, 1984, p. 4


In other words, the theory of evolution should have been abandoned, it being obvious that something like DNA could not evolve.


Seems clear there are some things you hold dear.

Lessee here, what you just brought to the table -

Your Mr Cohen, who argues from the standpoint of probabilty:

1) Mr Cohen's sole book publication credit is the work cited above.

2) Mr Cohen's book was self-published

3) Mr Cohen's book was subject to no peer review process prior to publication

4) Mr Cohen's book is cited as authority only by Creationist/Intelligent Design proponents

5) Mr Cohen's book is long out of print

6) The vanity press which published that book is long out of business

7) Mr Cohen has published no study, report, finding, criticism, or thesis in any professional or academically accredited journal, review, periodical, or edited compilation

8) Mr Cohen's purported credentials have absolutely no academic standing

9) Mr Cohen neither is nor has been recorded as staff, faculty, or fellow of any accredited institution of higher learning

10) Mr Cohen offers a postulate not only at variance with but in opposition to the preponderant academically accepted position.


Now, while any one of those things might or might not mean something by itself, what are the odds that, considered as a body, those things might pose serious challenge to Mr Cohen's credibility and authority?

Oh, and thats apart from the fact the cited statement proceeds from a false premis.

Personally, I'd hafta say the odds were pretty good there's somethin' snakey there.
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2004 09:35 pm
Cohen's statement is self-evident and obvious; he's basically saying that DNA could no more self-assemble than an aircraft carrier could. Here's another formulation:

Quote:

"...an intelligible communication via radio signal from some distant galaxy
would be widely hailed as evidence of an intelligent source. Why then
doesn't the message sequence on the DNA molecule also constitute prima
facie evidence for an intelligent source? After all, DNA information is not
just analogous to a message sequence such as Morse code, it is such a
message sequence." (pp. 211-212)

Charles B. Thaxton (Creationist)
Ph.D. Chemistry, Postdoctoral Fellow at Harvard,
Staff member of the Julian Center
The Mystery of Life's Origin:
Reassessing Current Theories
Philosophical Library, 1984

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Einherjar
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2004 09:39 pm
DNA is a sort of polymer, made up of monomers. It is not all that unlikely that a number of similar monomers of the sort which make up DNA would synthesize under certain conditions and combine randomly to form DNA sequences. By chance a self replicating sequence might form, and off we go.
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primergray
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2004 09:40 pm
gungasnake wrote:
What's going to happen the first time some human infant starts screaming his head off out on the African savannas with packs of 500-lb predators running around all over the place? Can you say "Dinner Bell"?



Its funny you should mention this, since it is something I've wondered about ever since I had to experience a colicky baby first-hand. What did pre-historic mothers *do*? All I can say is I'm glad her father was with me to help out - not off fighting some foreign war.
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2004 11:35 pm
Amusing thread.I'm with Mark Twain who said:

Man has been here 32,000 years. That it took a hundred million years to prepare the world for him is proof that that is what it was done for. I suppose it is. I dunno. If the Eiffel tower were now representing the world's age, the skin of paint on the pinnacle-knob at its summit would represent man's share of that age; & anybody would perceive that that skin was what the tower was built for. I reckon they would. I dunno.
- "Was the World Made for Man?"
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2004 08:23 am
That Thaxton might possess academically valid credentials does nothing to mitigate his starting from a false premis either, Snake. Whatchya got there - all ya got there, is a dissenting, minority opinion which is counter to the preponderantly accepted paradigm relevant to the subject. It happens also to be not independently peer-reviewed and authenicated.

Circular logic is circular logic, no matter who uses it to whatever purpose. The chief problem I - and many academics and philosophers - have with Thaxton, Cohen, et al, is the same problem which sinks Thomas Aquinas' otherwise brilliant Summa Theologica, essentially which "works" only because it proceeds from the assumption there must be a god, therefore there is a god, since he has told us so.
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2004 09:11 am
primergray wrote:
gungasnake wrote:
What's going to happen the first time some human infant starts screaming his head off out on the African savannas with packs of 500-lb predators running around all over the place? Can you say "Dinner Bell"?



Its funny you should mention this, since it is something I've wondered about ever since I had to experience a colicky baby first-hand. What did pre-historic mothers *do*?


They swam. They were living in water and not on the African savannas. Again part of the story is in Elaine Morgan's works:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0285635182/002-2145485-5214412?v=glance

And I say again, you don't have to be an evolutionist to appreciate Morgan's claim that humans originally lived in water, and the scholarship with which she supports that thesis.
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2004 09:46 am
gungasnake wrote:
And I say again, you don't have to be an evolutionist to appreciate Morgan's claim that humans originally lived in water, and the scholarship with which she supports that thesis.


Sooo.... humans evolved from an aquatic species? I thought "evolution is bunk."
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2004 09:56 am
They didn't "evolve" from an aquatic species. Humans, however we got here (which does not include evolution), originally lived in water.
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2004 09:59 am
It came from the Black Lagoon, eh?
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2004 10:04 am
Just when ya think it can't get any better ....
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2004 10:07 am
I guess that explains why I swim so well.
I'm less evolved.



hehehehehehehe
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2004 10:18 am
And I nearly sink like a stone. Does that mean I'm a higher being? Cool!
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2004 10:23 am
<snort> I'm trying to get this straight....if the oceans came from Mars, and humans came from the water, it's logical to assume that humans are from Mars? I always thought that men were from Mars, and women from Venus.
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2004 11:33 am
That's why women get the vapors.
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2004 12:10 pm
I never said the oceans came from Mars. I said that some of the water in the oceans may have come from Mars. There were oceans before the flood.
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2004 01:07 pm
This flood (the Deluge myth ala Noah?)... it came from Mars?
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