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The Trouble With Hillary

 
 
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2004 11:08 pm
Everyone Knows This Senator, and for 2008, That May Be Precisely the Trouble[/URL]
By RAYMOND HERNANDEZ

Published: December 5, 2004

ASHINGTON, Dec. 4 - In a race for the presidency, Hillary Rodham Clinton faces a problem that has dogged her since her days as first lady: an entrenched bloc of voters who simply do not like her.

And her experience as a senator in New York shows that despite vigorous campaigning around the state since taking office, she remains an extremely polarizing figure who is unable to sway these voters to her side.

One poll after another shows that roughly one of three New Yorkers has an unfavorable opinion of Mrs. Clinton, a statistic that has not changed since she took office in 2001.

Nationally, her standing is worse, even as her aides prepare for what is emerging as a possible bid for president in 2008. Roughly 4 of 10 Americans disapprove of her, according to a recent poll by the Marist College Institute for Public Opinion.

The voters who disapprove of Mrs. Clinton are numerous and unshakable, and they have been around so long that they even have a name in political circles. Hillary haters.

Mrs. Clinton offered a revealing answer when asked recently whether Republicans might be hoping that she becomes the Democratic presidential nominee in 2008, since it would give the G.O.P. a divisive figure to run against.

Mrs. Clinton - who studiously avoids answering questions about her presidential ambitions - quickly responded. "We have a president who is quite polarizing - and very successful, I might add," Mrs. Clinton said during an appearance on NBC's "Today."

Mrs. Clinton's high unfavorability ratings may help explain why a discussion has begun among her advisers over whether she should skip a Senate re-election campaign in 2006 and instead focus all her energies on a race for the White House.

The most obvious challenge that Mrs. Clinton faces in running for both jobs is a compressed political calendar that leaves her very little room to maneuver: The Iowa presidential caucuses are held just 14 months after Election Day in 2006.

If Mrs. Clinton stuck to the schedule that John Kerry followed during this presidential election cycle, she would have to give a clear indication of her desire to run for the presidency a mere month after her Senate race was over.

But that seems unlikely, some political analysts say, because the timing would be awkward.

Yet some people close to Mrs. Clinton maintain that the tight calendar should not be a problem because she is such a big celebrity, and any presidential campaign she embarks upon would instantly attract a huge amount of attention.

But other Democrats and independent political strategists say that her celebrity is a double-edged sword: While Mrs. Clinton does indeed enjoy a level of name recognition other politicians crave, she has earned a reputation that, fairly or not, makes her a polarizing figure among moderate swing voters, an important bloc nationally.

"There's work for her to do nationally," said Lee M. Miringoff, the director of the Marist institute. "Beyond her appeal to the Democratic base, there is a need for her to build bridges to reach out to moderate Republicans and independent voters if she hopes to succeed."

The so-called Hillary haters became a harsh reality of political life for Mrs. Clinton when she ran for the Senate. Republicans built much of their campaign on trying to tap anti-Clinton sentiments in New York State.

No one factor accounts for the deep misgivings many voters express for Mrs. Clinton, but to some degree it stems from a view that has taken hold, fairly or not, that she is a hugely ambitious woman with a liberal agenda that was most significantly illustrated in her efforts to overhaul the nation's health care system during her husband's presidency.

Mrs. Clinton sought to counteract the damage posed by the anti-Clinton feeling by spending nearly two years traveling around the state in a calculated effort to force voters to re-examine what, if anything, is so objectionable about her.

Many Democrats and independent political strategists contend that Mrs. Clinton may have to do much the same nationally.

"To be successful nationally, she will have to defuse some of the negative feelings," Mr. Miringoff said. "One way to attempt that is to replicate what she did in with New York with her Listening Tour."

A Democratic political strategist on Capitol Hill agreed. "She may have 100 percent name recognition," the strategist said. "But it comes with a certain amount of baggage."

Even after her victory in New York, Mrs. Clinton has taken nothing for granted, continuing to travel around the state constantly, as if running a perpetual campaign.

The strategy has yielded dividends: Her popularity rating among New Yorkers reached a notable 61 percent in September, compared with 38 percent in February 2001, according to a Quinnipiac University Poll.

Mrs. Clinton's approach has been particularly effective with undecided voters. The number of people who told Quinnipiac pollsters that they had no opinion of her has been dropping - to 7 percent in September from 33 percent in February 2001.

But tellingly enough, her tireless efforts around the state have done little to assuage the misgivings of many. The number of New Yorkers expressing an unfavorable opinion of her has been about the same - roughly one in three - in the 22 polls Quinnipiac University has conducted since 2001.

But Mrs. Clinton's advisers contend that the poll findings have, in fact, been very good news for her, saying that many undecided voters became supporters once they got to know her.

"Show me a poll where she has lost ground," said one Democrat who is close to Mrs. Clinton. "You can't. They don't exist. She has been gaining supporters both in New York and nationally since she took office by virtue of her hard work."
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 4,540 • Replies: 80
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 07:10 am
Hillary is a duplicitous snake that holds no personal morals. She should remove herself from public office and become a recluse.
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 07:30 am
McGentrix wrote:
Hillary is a duplicitous snake that holds no personal morals. She should remove herself from public office and become a recluse.


LOL, McG, shall we count you in the "don't like Hillary category"?
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 08:37 am
Do you think 4 out of 10 A2K'ers are Hillary Haters?
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 08:56 am
Quote:
Hillary is a duplicitous snake that holds no personal morals.


Maybe it runs in the family! Laughing
0 Replies
 
MaryM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 09:43 am
I used to be a Hillary hater. Her obvious arrogance when she and he assumed power in 93 was striking, and there are some things that wives should not stand for, most of which Bill has done. However, I think that she is thoughtful and intelligent, and has matured from the take it or leave it lib she was 10 years ago.

I might be as conservative as any on this forum, but I do think that eventually the long term problems of energy supplies, poverty, and health care will be seen as important as terrorism. We are the richest country on the planet, and should be able to solve those problems. The first step will be acknowledging them, and I don't think the Republican party will be up to that. I think Hillary can do it, and I might vote for her.

Duplicitous and without morals covers most politicians. They may still be capable of statesmanship and critical thinking.

As far as Hillary haters go, if there are more of them than there are mouth foaming Bush haters, I would be surprised, and he is President, again.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 10:04 am
She may be too intelligent for the American electorate. They apparently can only identify with someone who has the level of intelligence of a Bush. Sad

PS. She would get my vote.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 10:06 am
Consider me part of the 40%.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 10:08 am
Ticomaya
Wow! What a surprise.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 10:16 am
au1929 wrote:
Ticomaya
Wow! What a surprise.

Laughing

Have you heard her give a speech? Like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. Mad
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 10:30 am
Quote:
Hillary is a duplicitous snake that holds no personal morals. She should remove herself from public office and become a recluse.


Don't hold back, McG, tell us how you really feel about her!

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 10:31 am
As I said too intelligent. Bush's renderings I imagine are more to your liking.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 10:42 am
au1929 wrote:
As I said too intelligent. Bush's renderings I imagine are more to your liking.


No, I was being more literal .... her voice and manner of speaking are irritating to me. I found Kerry to be irritating as well, but in more of a put you to sleep kind of way.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 10:53 am
Ticomaya
I have no problem listening to anyone who speaks well. Whether, I agree or not. I cannot however watch Bush. His gestures and speech patterns turn me off. I will read what he has to say but watch him never! Frankly he embarrasses me.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 10:56 am
au1929 wrote:
Ticomaya
I have no problem listening to anyone who speaks well. Whether, I agree or not. ...


Same here.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 11:07 am
Quote:
Frankly he embarrasses me.



I agree but not for the same reasons. It is his content of his words that embarrass me more than lack of ability to speak well.

For instance: his answer to the press when asked about all the unexpected insurgency was a callous "bring em' on." The reason that sadden and embarrassed me was not because of it's Pro Wrestling type of language but because the subject was a serious one and it was people's lives he was talking about and it deserved something more than a catch phrase that showed a disregard from the President and commander in cheif for the loss of lives that the situation he was talking about was going to bring.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 11:11 am
au1929 wrote:
She may be too intelligent for the American electorate. They apparently can only identify with someone who has the level of intelligence of a Bush. Sad

PS. She would get my vote.


Speaking of surprises... Rolling Eyes

What has Hillary done exactly that would make you inclined to elect her president of the US?

Was it her money laundering in the cattle futures market?

Was it her role in the White House travel office firings, which led to the false prosecution of the office's head?

Was it her deceptive testimony to a House investigating committee in which she said "I don't recall" or its equivalent 50 times in a 42 paragraph statement.

Was it her still undetermined role in the Castle Grande land scam in which she was billing partner to Webster Hubbell who has plead guilty in the case.

Was it her role in the obtaining and misuse of some 900 FBI personal files on key Republicans, as dirty a political act as any carried out by Richard Nixon?
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 11:14 am
I would vote for Hillary based on "moral values".
0 Replies
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 11:17 am
The pathological hatred of Hillary expressed by some on this thread is typical of a certain percentage of the population. Bush, of course, engenders a similar feeling.

Needless to say, he's done far more damage than anything Hillary ever did. But she still scares some people. A lot. It's interesting...
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 11:18 am
Right, au. She's clearly too inteligent for me. Bad senator. No vote.
0 Replies
 
 

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