some problems with French

Your teacher's passport in France is for sure a "passeport etranger", because he/she is not French. French citizens naturally each have a "passeport francais", everybody not a French citizen but holder of a passport logically has a "passeport etranger".

As to those "deux mes soirs" it's completely meaningless as written. Could "demain soir" (tomorrow night) have been meant?

Try again the phonetic interpretations if you can.

Docent p



"Certains enfoirés preparaient un coup d'état mais Youschenko leur bottera leurs sales fesses. Il est temps de pendre Kouschma à l'arbre le plus proche. (Faut-il le pendre haut et court?)."

This is good french. But if you want classical french, here it goes :

Certains conspirateurs préparaient un coup d'état mais Youschenko leur bottera le derrière.

About phonetics you wrote : Il n'e pas de douche mais [the room she wants doesn't have a shower] mais .... [but smth sounding as "sa-va-po-ren"].

If she is staying only for one night, it could be " Il n'y a pas de douche mais ça va pour un soir (ou pour une nuit)." There's no shower but it will fit for a night.

About your other questions, HofT put it straight. She is making a reservation for "demain soir"(tomorrow night, as she is probably travelling during day time).

As told, if you are French you can have a passeport ( For others than French it will be a "french passport".

In some specific situations you can hear "passeport étranger".

Imagine you are in Paris and police is checking id's. What kind of id document does he have? asks a policeman. Another policeman answers : "un passeport étranger" (a foreigner passeport).

I hope it will help you.

An aside: not many French have a passport at all (you don't need one in Europe), but "une carte nationale d'identité".


(France is a "Schengen country": you can travel freely throughout the Schengen zone*. Internal border controls have disappeared; there are no or few stops and checks. This means that internal air, road and train travel are handled as domestic trips, similar to travel from one US state
to another.

* Schengen countries: Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Italy, Greece, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain and Sweden. [All these countries except Norway and Iceland are European Union members.])

Docent P wrote:

who are these guys? yuschenko is not going to kick anyone's ass out because he's not legitimate yet (and i doubt he will ever be because he LOST the elections, fraud or not). if ever the result of the election is nullified, the country will face a major crisis if not a civil war because half the population don't want yuschenko as a president!
for those who don't know, yuschenko is not a ukrainian tsakashvili (who still has to show that he can do some good for his country) and yanukovich is not shevarnadze.

i don't understand why so many people want yuschenko to win. do you want the ukraine to plunge into total chaos? the country can not survive without its russian part (the eastern industrialized regions).

in russia, a foreign passport is what we call in france a "passeport", that is a document you need to travel abroad.

an inside passport is an id card, plain and simple (ahem, sort of;)).

and no, the right to travel is not universal, since you have to PAY for a passport (the id card is free), whether you live in france or in russia.

Well, with yout free (French) ID-card you can travel at least all over the Schengen countries plus a couple more FREE! (You don't need a passport but just an ID-card, when cross most European borders - I don't have a passport since more than 15 years, and needed it only to enter the than GDR.)

what is the than GDR?

German democratic republic (former east-germany)

Re
>As to those "deux mes soirs" it's completely meaningless as written. Could "demain soir" (tomorrow night) have been meant?

Exactly.

>"Certains enfoirés preparaient un coup d'état mais Youschenko leur bottera leurs sales fesses. Il est temps de pendre Kouschma à l'arbre le plus proche. (Faut-il le pendre haut et court?)."
Excellent phrase. That's what I wanted.

Well said. That’s what I wanted.

>If she is staying only for one night, it could be " Il n'y a pas de douche mais ça va pour un soir (ou pour une nuit)." There's no shower but it will fit for a night.

Definitely not. It’s at the end of the phrase so I couldn’t miss if “soir” or “nuit” followed.

I tried to listen it again. Can’t it be about the word “vapeur”? Something about steam-heating? “… mais á vapeurain” or so?

>In some specific situations you can hear "passeport étranger".

Thanks, this situation is what I had no idea about. Anyway you restored France's reputation in my eyes.

>and no, the right to travel is not universal, since you have to PAY for a passport (the id card is free), whether you live in france or in russia.

The freedom of movement is a universal right, stated in the UN Human Right Declaration of 1948, which is superior over any state law. But of course it’s nothing easier than to violate this right. In Russia for example there are millions of people belonging to the category “nevyezdnoy” (forbidden to go out) who can’t obtain this damned “foreign passport” and therefore can’t cross the borders legally (I’m one of them, for example).

>he LOST the elections, fraud or not).

That’s wrong. According to independent accounts Yushchenko has collected 54%, for 13% more than Yanukovich – 41%.

>if not a civil war because half the population don't want yuschenko as a president!

That’s bloody doubtful. Yanukovich – former Communist secretary, unlucky thief, Kuchma’s puppet and Putin’s ass-kisser – is hardly a person to lead people into a civil war. He is too miserable for serious political games.

>…yanukovich is not shevarnadze.

That’s right. At least Sh-dze didn’t call on Russian spetznaz to guard him. And he didn’t put Burjanadze in prison and didn’t try to poison Saakashvili.

>i don't understand why so many people want yuschenko to win.

May be they just don’t want to be treated as obedient animals, when Kuchma and Putin would decide who is to rule them next.

>do you want the ukraine to plunge into total chaos? the country can not survive without its russian part (the eastern industrialized regions).

So you are barking the wrong tree. It’s Yanukovich and his friends in Donetsk are provoking chaos: at first cheating the elections, and now developing separatist ideas.

Anyway it’s already too far off topic.

Docent p wrote :

If she is staying only for one night, it could be " Il n'y a pas de douche mais ça va pour un soir (ou pour une nuit)." There's no shower but it will fit for a night.

Definitely not. It's at the end of the phrase so I couldn't miss if "soir" or "nuit" followed.

I tried to listen it again. Can't it be about the word "vapeur"? Something about steam-heating? "… mais á vapeurain" or so?

Maybe if you explaine a little more the context. (you said you listened it again, so I suppose you have it on a tape or disk)

It could be "mais un bain-vapeur" (there is no more "bains-vapeur" in hotels today, except saunas)

Keep trying!

Salut!

Moi aussi, Je suis un Russe qui adore le Français comme une langue. Comme Docent P Je voudrais le parler mieux, mais il n’y a beaucoup du temps toujours pour l’étudier. Trop d’Anglais à mon travail, et il y a déjà 6 ans quand Je pouvais pratiquer mon Français la derniere fois!

"Il n'y pas de douche mais – et quelquechose comme "sa-va-po-ren" après... Peut il être "ça va pour rien" ?

Franchement, cela ne se dit pas en français. J'ai beau me torturer les méninges, je ne vois pas ce que cela peut être.
Essaye de me donner davantage d'éléments du contexte. La phrase se poursuit-elle?

En tout cas, bon courage pour la suite de ton aprentissage du français!

Can someone help to translate this Ukrainian joke in French, I would like to add it to my next report:

- Who are you lighting your candle for, pal?
- For Putin, God bless him…
- How can, you? He is a “moscal” (a rude word for “Russian”)
- That’s nothing. But he’s a really kind guy. Once he supported Shevardnadze, and Sh-dze was overthrown. Next he wellcomed Khadzhimba, and Kh-ba got into ass. Now he is embracing our Kuchma and we have the best expactations.
- But ain’t you afraid Kuchma, unlike Sh-dze, won’t leave the power voluntarily?
- Damn... But Putin once supported Kadyrov also.

>"Il n'y pas de douche mais – et quelquechose comme "sa-va-po-ren" après...

The full text of the exercise:

“Je voudrais visiter la chambre d'étudiant. Il n'a pas de douche mais sa-va-po-ren. Je suis Sophie Dolage, tél. 043097428. [pause before the next section]”

The matching text on paper is:

“Chambre à louer de september à juin pour jeune étudiante(e). Prix intéressant mais petit confort.”

The teacher got serious amnesia, so she can’t carry in the goddamnit tapescript. If you occasionally have the Champion vol. 1, then it can help a lot – unit 3, ex. 12, section Charlie. If not then it’s not really important anymore.


Many thanks in advance.

About your "sa-va-pour-an" I'm still guessing what that can means.

Translation of your joke :

- Pour qui allumes-tu une bougie ?
- Pour Poutine, que Dieu le bénisse !
- Comment peux-tu faire ça, c'est un moscal (sale bolchevik ?)
- Ce n'est rien ! C'est vraiment un gars bien ! Il a appuyé Chevardnadze et Chevardnadze a été renversé. Ensuite il a fait ami ami avec
Khadzhimba et Khadzhimba l'a eu dans le baba ! Maintenant qu'il embrasse Kouchma nous avons de très bons espoirs !
- Mais tu ne crains pas que Kouchma, contrairement à Chevardnadze, ne quitte pas le pouvoir volontairement ?
- Bordel… Mais Poutine a également soutenu Kadyrov !

s'évaporent, hein? maybe...

But this doesn't fit in the context

>About your "sa-va-pour-an" I'm still guessing what that can means.

I managed to make a look to the mentioned textbook (one gal of my class appeared to have one) and with a great amazement I discovered it doesn’t contain transcripts. So far nobody will now be able to decode it with the 100% gurantee. I bet even the book’s authors themselves must have forgotten it ages ago.

>Translation of your joke :

Thank you. I had a big success with it.

Now I’ve picked up one more. So there is it with my translation:

Because of Kouchma going to Moscow some Rada members asked the Ministry of Defence to conduct exercises of the Air Defence Forces.

Parce que Koutchma prend à Moscou certains députés du parlement ont demandé Le Ministère de Défense faire des exercices du défense contre avions.

Can you correct the mistakes?

And now some problems with grammar (I’m afraid you may find some questions stupid, but anyway):

1 I bet a French studying English is one who can best of all explain the difference between the article’s usage in French and English. Some difference I’ve already known is about professions. As I was told you don’t put “une” or “un” before a profession - “je suis ouvrier” for example. The same is while addressing – “monsieur professeur”. Meanwhile in the texts I found an episode – some guy is gonna say something to a cop and he begins: “monsieur l’agent…” The teacher said there’s no specific rule, one can say what he wants – “monsieur agent” or “monsieur l’agent” but I’m still doubtful. I got a feeling that there can be some very specific rule. Can you sort it out?

IIRC in English there are about 15 rules where you have to put down “a” or “the” or nothing. I wonder if there similar rules in French? And I’d bloody appreciate if someone gives away the difference between French and English articles.

2 As I got it we use “un” or “une” or “des” before countable things and “du” or “de l’” before uncountable – “du pain, du fromage” etc. Recently I met a word “des informations” (several pieces of information?). According to the teacher “information” is countable in French, and this is what really surprised me. So can we say “un information”, “deux informations”, “troix informations” etc.? That’s smth very unusual for me.

3 The most often mistake in my tests is about accents. The word é is the most often. Don’t you have any idea how to help to determine it? I’ve noticed that usually it’s followed by a consonant (except x) or by a consonant and –r- or nothing or by a vowel except -ère at the end of a word where we use è. Though it doesn’t explain why we type “demande” but “démanteler”. Do Frenches use any logic in this?

4 In an exercise about French shops there are “à LA droguerie”, “AU magasin de jouets”, “à LA station-servicé”, “à LA quincaillerie” but “dans UN café”, “dans UN magasin de meubles”, “dans UNE boulangerie”. I was told that we use à when we still outside a store meaning we are going to the store, and dans is used when we are already inside the store. Meanwhile la/le means that we KNOW exactly what the pre-determined shop we are gonna visit, but un/une means that this is just an unknown store, one of many else. Well, it’s understandable. But doesn’t it seem strange that we ALWAYS know what store this is about while OUTSIDE but as soon as we have entered it someone kicks this knowledge out of our heads? We NEVER know what a shop it is when we are INSIDE! I bet there must be some explanation.

5 The USA in French is Etats-Unis, or EU in short , isn’t it? How do Frenchs tell it from the European Union?

Many thanks in advance

At about.com is - what I think - a nice article about the use of the definitive and indefinitive article in French.



Union européenne = UE

Parce que Koutchma se rend à Moscou, certains députés du parlement ont demandé au Ministère de la Défense de faire des exercices de défense anti-aérienne.

nota : The Ukrainian system being unicameral, when you say "députés" they are, ipso-facto, "du parlement". So you can omit it.


1- When telling someone what you do, you say : "Je suis ingénieur".

But when adressing him, you say : Monsieur l'ingénieur. ( or Monsieur le professeur).

Adressing him "Monsieur ingénieur" doesn't make sense.


About the rules, I'll try to put it straight later.

2- "informations" are countable. You can have one or more informations about something. Hence you can say : j'ai trois informations sur cette affaire.

3- About accents : yes, there is a logic.

accent aigu : é like in "café" (sound "eh" as in eheh!)
accent grave : è like in "après" (sound "ai" as in air)

for other accents see this link :Accents

Your example - demande, démanteler. This words are of different etymologies.

Demande - old french "de mande" on order(of someone with authority).
Démanteler - old french - préfixe dé : ôter + manteau.

You can not apply a logic of accent on words of different families.

4- Let's put order :

When you are on the way to a specific shop : Je vais à la station-service.
When talking about an event: Cela s'est passé à la station-service.

When you are there and you know it by being there before : Je suis à la station-service.(It implies the person you are talkink to also knows it).
When you are there but you dont know it : Je suis dans une station-service.