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Is debate possible between ignoramuses?How is it possible

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2004 10:09 am
Blatham-

Denis Potter eh?What a writer.

Nighty Nightie

spendius
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2004 08:45 am
Dogs, yes..........I was thinking of dogs. Sniffing may facilitate thinking, but is it lateral thinking, concrete thinking, critical thinking, procedural thinking, implicit or explicit literal thinking.....or what?
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Lucifer
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2004 03:40 pm
If you want my answer to the topic, see the other topic, "I know everything". In a case like that, it's pretty clear.
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Xior
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2004 04:00 pm
a debate between one intellilctual, and one stupid, is also impossible though
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2004 07:55 pm
Xior

I'm not sure what you mean, but I won't find out because I simply refuse to talk with anyone whose name begins with X on the reasonable hypothesis that they are from another planet.

Lucifer

Great name. I always liked it. Rolls off the tongue like a zesty and fullsome clitorus. We've been discussing him on another thread and he's kind of my main man...it's not just that he's the pardigm case where 'they broke the mold with that fellow' but also because he was, if you think about it, really the world's first disgruntled former employee.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2004 08:03 pm
spendius

I confess I didn't even know about the fellow until the CBC ran "Singing Detective" about a decade back. Knocked my socks off, as they say here in lumberjack land. Best use a group of actors and a cameraman have ever been put to, I figures. And such a smart man (not sure if it's the water there at Cambridge, but you guys grow damn fine liberals).
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2004 08:16 pm
Here is an excellent example of why debate with ignoramuses is fruitless. I've written a poem and it has been unappreciated. Poohy.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=38105&start=920&sid=f6eba35639be4ba683e64196f8ed9685

Quote:
Surmising 'neath the Tum tum tree
My mind alights on uber-ich
Me thinks tis of religion born
A peace disposed to morbific

Of id, id, id and ego born
Of id and ego I remain
As I go down, as down I will
Pray not my mind to arraign

Of diabolical intercourse
With Incubi and baldersnatch
Give me the Jabberwock tonight
The underground we'll unlatch

Wellbutrin, Viagra, Stellizine
Effexor, Xanax, Billabong
From silthy toves and gimbled wabe
Which of these does not belong?
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Lucifer
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2004 09:25 pm
Blatham, the reason my name sounds so nice is because it's from Latin. Disgruntled former employee? That might explain some things.
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Lady J
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 12:24 am
**note to self** Need to learn Latin!! :wink:
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 05:42 am
blatham-

Good week

Yeah!You shoulda seen Blackeyes!And there was a real freaker about the Devil with a heroine who had been mentally wrecked in an accident.He? cures her.I forgot the title.

Strange character Potter.Try to imagine it.Rich,famous,clever,young,good looking,everything really.And has a bad skin disease.I,d be interested in your thoughts on that conglomeration of personal characteristics.And Lola's too.I bet a Manhattan psychiatrist could lie awake pondering the effects.

spendius.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 06:54 am
Lola-

Loved your poem.I'm proud to have it on my thread.You're a very naughty girl.I hope you didn't burn your fingers in that American Dream.

So?A trick-cyclist eh?Did you ever read Henry Miller's take on that strange discipline?

How about Wilhelm Reich then?There's some foundation in New York dedicated to him.He was a star pupil of Freud.(Higgins something or other.)

Billabong belongs a bit.Niagra might be better.You must be one of that elite that sees the funny side of Just Like Tom Thumb Blues.

I do believe that you would love,nay adore,Ted Hughes's fantastic Shakespeare book.There's poets and then there's poets.
Ever read Philip Larkin?

Stimulus to any sense will cause all those thinkings if its strong enough and especially if the main focus is already present.

If your verse really has gone "unappreciated" that would rather prove my point.It is an excellent example.It must be tiresome for you.Arraigning your mind is for losers.
Is the penultimate line of anagrams made?

More power to your elbow babe.

spendius.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 07:58 am
Here's a few Lola-

Livest oh sty.Hot sty evils.Or veils.Vote stylish.Levity shots.Sty live shot.Soil thy vest.The ivy slots.

A webbed glim.A big bed mewl.Dab mi leg web.Big mewl bead.Mi badge blew.Adlib webgem.Me bilge bawd.Big lewd beam.Legweb maid.Wild ebb game.

Take your pick

spendius..
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 08:48 am
idenpuss

Brimstone and Treacle...but the casting of Sting as A Debel didn't fly. You'd have been better. I'd have been better. Lola can play the victim awakened. Didn't see Blackeyes performed yet, but one day I'll find a copy. You must have watched that incredible interview with Bragg just before Potter died. SOMEONE MURDER RUPERT MURDOCH!...whoa, sorry, that just slipped out.

I've thought about the psoriasis and arthritic disablement. The Marlowe character alluded to 'rotting from the inside out', but Potter declined any connection to the interior crippling of that character and himself. That's not possible but it still might be more true than not. Hell, I'd slice up my own dear English grandmother with a WeedEater if she were still alive and if a good sentence might be consequent.

Here's a funny bloke I just bumped into...you'll have to endure 5 seconds of advertisement http://www.salon.com/books/int/2004/12/06/stahl/index.html
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 09:52 am
Blatham-
Yep.You jogged the synapses.Mrs Whitehouse had a good go at getting B&T excised. Who do you suggest for Ma nd Pa?They were Pinterish as I recall which is to say fearsome.
I did see the Bragg interview.Astounding.Heroic.Larkin said that his duty was not to frighten the others when he was terminal and when my turn comes I,m going to follow the example of these two great men.Who'd be a doctor eh?The CPD have some of their money you know.
Lola's as awake as it gets.That poem is pretty good.
OK its confessional and quite subjective but that's women for you.They are a bit right sided in the brain geometry and they usually have a big left tit to balance them up.
Not me.I like Rupe.He invented SKY SPORTS.
No you wouldn't.Hyperbole can be overdone.

Hey-I saw a bit of a programme about Vancouver property.What prices.You must have anthrax in the soil or something.Are you on that fault line.
I done the link.???????

Best wishes

spendius.
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 12:48 pm
my dear man, spendius

You are extracting a high toll for your much appreciated attention. Learning is good, but my homework has been extensive. I've been on quite a little ride on Google. Consider for a moment this quotation of Henry Miller:

Quote:
Analysis brings no curative powers in its train; it merely makes us conscious of the existence of an evil, which, oddly enough, is consciousness.


How back handed of the man! Heaven forbid a cure should be offered. How would a person occupy himself if cured? Consciousness is no evil, unless you're talking backward.....which Miller may be. In that case evilness is considered desirable..........

In the words of Sigmund himself:

Quote:
Analysis does not set out to make pathological reactions impossible, but to give the patient's ego freedom to decide one way or another.
Sigmund Freud


Apparently, Miller through Anais Nin came into contact with psychoanalysis through Otto Rank, another early colleague of Freud's who begged to differ. Rank moved away from Freud's theory of intrapsychic conflict dominated primarily by oedipal themes such as jealousy and competition and moved in the direction of the influence of the mother. His conclusion was a more active, or interactive treatment method which involved a hands on approach, so to speak.....which is the way many of these mother theories go. It may have appealed to Miller and Nin.....although that's pure speculation. But Miller doesn't seem to have developed an appreciation for psychoanalysis.....but maybe I'm wrong. Psychoanalysis in those days was quite different than it is today.

I'm not one of those Vagina Monologues feminists, although there is nothing wrong with vaginas. But I'm a true believer in penis envy and the like......if it's not universal, you couldn't prove it by me....as a matter of fact, I can't call myself a feminist at all. I'm a humanist, and whether it's secular or not is still up for debate. Freud is so terribly misunderstood.

As to Dylan and his Thumb, consider the liner notes:

Quote:
. . . . the songs on this specific record are not so much songs but rather exercises in tonal breath control. . . . the subject matter -- though meaningless as it is -- has something to do with the beautiful strangers . . . . the beautiful strangers, Vivaldi's green jacket & the holy slow train


It's true, I do see the funny side of Just Like Tom Thumb Blues, but that's my cross to bear in my life. I see the humor and the positive side of almost anything......however I was much challenged to come up with something positive about the results of the last election, other than that I stand to become considerably richer now than before Nov. 2. That's not a bad one......but at what price?

And Wilhelm Reich....now there's a character. <yuck yuck> I have known of Reich for some time. His work on character analysis is actually brilliant, as far as it goes.... And he was right on, in my opinion, about the uselessness of the concept of sin and evil. We are all animals, after all. But the poor man died in an unhappy place.

Quote:
Reich died on November 3, 1957, in the Federal Penitentiary at Lewisburg, Pennsylvania, where he was sent for criminal contempt. The criminal charge was levied because Reich refused to obey an injunction against selling quack medical devices such as the Orgone Accumulator and orgone "shooters," devices which allegedly could collect and distribute orgone energy, thereby making possible the cure for just about any medical disorder except, perhaps, megalomania and self-delusion.


And it's a shame too, given his early work.....however, even then he was heavy handed and most would call him insensitive. His confrontive style was abrasive. Most people on the couch don't like to be confronted by their methods of defense or told of their animal nature, not right off the bat anyway.......it's poor psychoanalytic technique, I understand.

Reich differed from Freud in a most fundamental way.......he moved from the intrapsychic to the organic.......the path his mind travelled before his death, apparently

Reich's insanity was rather far advanced before he was imprisoned.

Quote:
Wilhelm Reich claimed he had discovered a universal cosmic and biological energy present everywhere and detectable through specified experiments. He called this energy orgone. He built a box with organic material on the outside and metal on the inside that he called an orgone accumulator, which he believed collected and accumulated orgone in the atmosphere. He claimed that exposure to orgone, particularly through sitting in the accumulator, promoted health and vitality, and was an effective treatment for cancer. He also claimed to detect another energy, oranur or deadly orgone radiation (DOR), which produced negative health effects and reacted to orgone. He also built a device he called a cloud buster, with which he claimed he could manipulate the weather by manipulating the orgone in the atmosphere. Reich's claims aroused much controversy, and he was taken to court for fraud by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). The court ordered his books and research burned and his equipment destroyed. Reich was given a prison sentence, and he died in prison in 1957.


It's interesting they sent him to prison rather than the psychiatric institution. Just goes to show ya that it's dangerous to mess around with the FDA.

In my goggle fun this morning, I uncovered a previously unknown to me play written by a certain philosopher named, Robert Anton Wilson. Is he a member of the CPD, btw? Laughing

The play is called Wilhelm Reich in Hell.

http://www.rawilson.com/hell.html

And it's quite funny, and along the lines of my poem, now that I think of it. It's a shame that the preponderance of information available on Google about Reich is about his crazy stuff. But that's the way some of us are.....always hungry for the quick and sensational gratification.

Ted Hughes........I have several books of his poetry in my library....but not the one about the Goddess. I'll have to remember to order that book, it looks most interesting. And do I know Phillip Larkin? Don't think so........But I'll tackle that another day.

This post is too long. Bother! But I appreciate your appreciation of my poem, even with your right brain and left tit comment. Humpt........
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 03:35 pm
click on link...click on 'day pass'...click 'continue' several times...then click on 'enter salon premium' and quick as a whistle you are there
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2004 09:20 am
Lola-

I would think that the Miller quote relates to original sin and baptism.Maybe you should get a gold font and some Jordan water.Add in some conspicious consumption and you might effect a "cure".
I had a dream once.Years ago.There was a little black imp performing on a stage a little like Dylan from the back row.I was in the audience.A large cat about 50 times bigger than the imp strolled onto the stage and gobbled it up just like that,as Tommy Cooper used to say,and stalked off.I woke up.My first thought,remembered distinctly,was "that's the last of my subconscious."
At the time I was engaged in certain ceremonials under the supervision of an English Rose who could just as easily served as a model for Henry Moore.It struck me that she could have brought the contents of my subconscious into consciousness.It felt like that anyway and I found it hilarious.This hilarity caused certain other effects which could only be overcome by a strict disciplinary regimen which the aforesaid Rose seemed more than willing to supervise.In fact her eyes used to gleam at the prospect of the new found power I had discovered for her.Fortunately I had the wit to explain to her that my economic function would be impaired if she adopted all the methods her by then fertile brain (100% right side)had conceived which assuaged my dilemma considerably.But the sense of having no subconscious was highly liberating.

I rate Freud for pointing out that civilisation equated with sickness and for having written some first rate prose.

I can well believe that Miller was an adept of a hands on approach.His Opus Pistorum is ample evidence.But Tropic of Cancer was the stand out book of his age.

If psychoanalysis was "quite different" in those days does that mean that what it was is now discredited?

There is something wrong with vaginas.They lead innocent young men down the rocky road to perdition.

I must admit that I've always thought penis envy ridiculous and often in moments of high drama have been envious of pudenda power.

Tom Thumb seems to me to be a rejection of the dark goddess and a preference for the presumably tamed New York lady.Its the reason I find funny.

I wouldn't worry too much about the election.If you are better off good.The cost is only what you make it.From here it looked like an inchoate civil war.

On Reich.I remembered.The Mary Higgins Trust.
Surely that orgone stuff was a metaphor.His previous writings suggest that.A sort of high tech (for then) magic wand.Faith healing.Once its a clever metaphor "cloud busting" and "weather" can take on subtler meanings.Don't forget that a cathedral is a light collecting machine designed to produce mental effects in the faithful.Add in some swoony organ and po-faced ritual chants and movement and right siders can get quite carried away.You could use that for diagnosis.A pretty lucid and short account is given in Hughes (p157 in the Faber 1st).Some people believe Reich was murdered.I don't know about that.Did they really burn his books.No wonder some rich Yanks are buying bolt holes in Ireland.

The Hughes is most interesting but it does require effort like all things worthwhile.I'm sure you will love it.I mean love it.Its a bit expensive though.The last one I saw advertised was 140 dollars secondhand.

You're posts are never too long.

spendius.

PS Why would my cat be black?Ask an expert.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2004 09:25 am
blatham- I have clicked the clicker and clistled the wicker and if its what I think it is it just seems like some chap out nutting Kerouac.?

spendius.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2004 10:22 am
Quote:
What about Bush getting reelected? Any sage predictions as to the character and achievements of the second term?

I'd have to go back to H.L. Mencken and quote something he said in the Baltimore Sun in 1920: "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

Put differently, as Americans are subtly and consistently stripped of their personal power -- be it economic or intellectual -- the need to bask in some nationalistic pseudo glory must increase proportionately. A few more years of Bush and people will be eating flags -- raw, of course, since if you cook them that counts as burning. Around the time the first Bush-girls porn tape hits the Internet -- "Oh baby, spank my ass and call me Fallujah!" -- Attorney General Billy Graham will declare the entire nation possessed by Satan and invoke martial law until the Dark One can be rooted out. I don't subscribe to the notion that Bush Jr. is necessarily the worst president -- but I do believe he'll be the last one.


Here's the best part of the interview.........funny, to me at least. But maybe you have to have met the evil twins to see the extreme humor........
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2004 11:25 pm
sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeping........see ya tomorrow.
0 Replies
 
 

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