18
   

Where are you God?

 
 
Susmariosep
 
  -1  
Mon 10 Jul, 2017 02:10 pm
@Susmariosep,
Now, in the text above from you, I ASK you why you bring in Descartes?

I have told atheists and everyone with whom I love to exchange thoughts about on God exists or not, to NOT bring in authorities whatsoever or what they read in the internet, BUT when they get their ideas NOT from their very own personal thinking on truths, facts, logic, and the best thoughts of mankind from since the dawn of man's conscious intelligent...

THEN, in order that they will not lose self-respect owing to any infection of plagiarism, JUST say that they have got this or that thought from others, no need to mention names, and they have appropriated it as their very own thought: BECAUSE it is in accordance with truths, facts, logic, and the best thoughts of mankind from since the dawn of man's conscious intelligence.

So, dear Tom, why do you have to bring in Descartes?

See next post.
0 Replies
 
Susmariosep
 
  -1  
Mon 10 Jul, 2017 02:11 pm
@Susmariosep,
Okay, dear Tom and all readers, in most particular, atheists, do you at all have any thought about God, that is from your very own personal thinking that is grounded on truths, facts, logic, and the best thoughts of mankind from since the dawn of man’s conscious intelligence, at all?

OTHERWISE, and this below is an ad hominem* of the second kind,* cease and desist from wasting the time and labor of readers with your lousy thinking.

Quote:
* https://able2know.org/topic/394567-4#post-6461654

(2) The kind that is a boon to e.g. an atheist who withal calling himself atheist sticks tenaciously to the search for truths, facts, logic, and the best thoughts of mankind from since the dawn of man's conscious intelligence: this kind of ad hominems consists in helping such an atheist to examine himself in regard to how he stymies productive epistemology, like with provoking him to see that he is into an Acquired Intelligence Deficiency Syndrome; and this kind is not commonly known to intellectuals.


See next post.
0 Replies
 
Susmariosep
 
  0  
Mon 10 Jul, 2017 02:12 pm
@Susmariosep,
Now, dear readers, I tell you, atheists will at this point as per their lousy routine, declare that they don't have any concept of God, because they don't accept the existence of any God, gods, goddesses, deities, etc. divinities...

Or with one Krumple, he will say that he is just not certain or he is just uncertain that God exists certainly, err, uncertainly.

That is all why I call atheists to be in their heart and mind, to be infected with Acquired Intelligence Deficiency Syndrome.

See you guys again tomorrow.

[End of See next post.]
0 Replies
 
Susmariosep
 
  0  
Mon 10 Jul, 2017 02:53 pm
I am sorry dear readers here, but I hope my four last posts for this morning come out completely, even though I appear to be replying to myself – hahahahaha!

You see, and I could be wrong: There is here no consecutive numbering of every post in a page covering a thread in a forum board, like this:

Home>webpage>forum>board>thread>post - and each post is numbered consecutively from the thread with the OP as number 1 post of the thread.

Anyway, I am adjusting to the system here.

And kudos to the founders, owners, and operators of a2k!

No, I have not been banned suddenly forever, not yet(?).
0 Replies
 
Susmariosep
 
  0  
Mon 10 Jul, 2017 05:36 pm
Dear readers, I just come back to check on what transpired earlier between Tomtombinks and me.

Do you notice that I have already started since Post: # 6,461,137 Sat 8 Jul, 2017 01:46 pm, to give the evidence for God existing, but Tomtombinks still brings back again his demand for my evidence on God existing; see below the two quotes in Annex 1 and Annex 2, for the earlier message from me and for the later message from Tom.

That is the trouble with exchange of thoughts with atheists, they keep on and on and on and on and on… demanding evidence, and I have already produced the evidence, one piece at a time, starting with the nose in their face.


I have to leave now, but see you all guys again tomorrow.


Annex 1 from Susmariosep:
Quote:
Post: # 6,461,137 Sat 8 Jul, 2017 01:46 pm Susmariosep

Quote:
From Tomtombinks:
"Now you said something earlier (or in another thread) about proof. Let's have it. Don't repeat your mantra about your concepts, just give your evidence."


What about the nose in our face as one piece of evidence, for a starter?
_______________________


Here is the proposition that I want us you and me to work on, from my part to prove it true or a fact, and from your part to prove it false or not a fact.

Is that all right with you, or you have a proposition that you want me and you, from my part to prove that it is false or a fiction, and from your part that it is true or a fact.


Dear readers here, let us all sit back and await with bated breath for atheist Tom, to react to my thoughts in the present post.


See you guys all again tomorrow.



Annex 2 from Tomtombinks:
Quote:
Post: # 6,461,741 Sun 9 Jul, 2017 09:33 pm TomTomBinks


Hi Susmario,
I'm not avoiding you. I have two jobs and I'm very busy most of the time. I have, without evasion of any kind told you that my concept of good and evil are roughly in line with yours and my concept of existence is in line with Descartes, although I simplified it somewhat. And my concept of god is nonexistent because I don't believe in god. So I guess it's up to you to provide your evidence of god. Without that, our conversation is at a standstill.


TomTomBinks
 
  2  
Mon 10 Jul, 2017 09:37 pm
@Susmariosep,
So it's your nose, then. Your proof of god. Scholars and priests and scientists will come from the ends of the earth to look at your nose and then they too will know the glory of god. OK then, you win. You've proven the existence of god by having a nose. I guess you're the first! Congratulations and thank you. Now I can have everlasting life and all the doubters will be saved. Hallelujah!
Susmariosep
 
  -1  
Tue 11 Jul, 2017 12:06 pm
Quote:
From Susmariosep | Post: # 6,462,221 | Mon 10 Jul, 2017 02:08 pm

"Existence is anything at all which we know to be real from our conscious experience and reasoning."

"In concept God is first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning."

"Good is anything at all which man at least LIKES, as to strive to possess and enjoy." [17 words]

"Evil is anything at all which man at least DISLIKES, and strives to avoid or overcome." [16 words]
_______________________

Quote:
From Tomtombinks:

@Susmariosep,

Hi Susmario,
I'm not avoiding you. I have two jobs and I'm very busy most of the time. I have, without evasion of any kind told you that my concept of good and evil are roughly in line with yours and my concept of existence is in line with Descartes, although I simplified it somewhat. And my concept of god is nonexistent because I don't believe in god. So I guess it's up to you to provide your evidence of god. Without that, our conversation is at a standstill.
.

Dear Tom, I really commend you that you don't appear to be a smug but vacuous atheist.



Quote:
From Tomtombinks | Post: # 6,462,443 | Mon 10 Jul, 2017 09:37 pm

@Susmariosep,
So it's your nose, then. Your proof of god. Scholars and priests and scientists will come from the ends of the earth to look at your nose and then they too will know the glory of god. OK then, you win. You've proven the existence of god by having a nose. I guess you're the first! Congratulations and thank you. Now I can have everlasting life and all the doubters will be saved. Hallelujah!



Well, that is quite flippantly optimistic from your part, though I do not promise you at all any everlasting life, I am keen here in a2k on getting to read some cognitive substance from you, instead of continuous vacuity of flippancy, in your role as an atheist.

See next post.
0 Replies
 
Susmariosep
 
  -1  
Tue 11 Jul, 2017 12:11 pm
@TomTomBinks,
Dear readers here, what I like very much to know from Tom is: whether he will explain to me how he got to ever become or adopt the identity of an atheist.

Now, dear Tom, suppose you get finally to do some genuine thinking; the nose in your face and also babies and roses, and the sun and the moon, and subatomic particles and the distant galaxies in space, they are all pieces of evidence that God exists, in concept as first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning.

You are asking for evidence, I have presented evidence.

That explains why and how I know God exists.

Suppose you explain to me why you are an atheist, unless you are just into nursing here in a2k your Acquired Intelligence Deficiency Syndrome, and nothing more than continuous inanity and vacuity of flippancy.

Please, if you value your self-respect as a thinking atheist, present your objections to my evidence of God existing, in concept as the creator cause of everything with a beginning.

Dear readers here, let us sit back and await with bated breath to read objections from Tom; but I tell you, the man will now tell us that to him, God is a flying spaghetti monster.

That is the kind of thinking with atheists, like one Tomtombinks; and I was glad that he seemed earlier to be a sober human being, a member of the class homo sapiens, keen on knowing the fact of existence, and how things in the totality of reality are or get to be in existence.
Susmariosep
 
  -2  
Tue 11 Jul, 2017 12:38 pm
"Existence is anything at all which we know to be real from our conscious experience and reasoning."

"In concept God is first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning."

"Good is anything at all which man at least LIKES, as to strive to possess and enjoy." [17 words]

"Evil is anything at all which man at least DISLIKES, and strives to avoid or overcome." [16 words]
___________________________


Dear Tomtombinks and Oh ye atheists:

Please be guided accordingly to the About US of a2k:

Quote:
About able2know

Able2know's mission is to help connect people, knowledge and resources.

Able2know is committed to providing these services free of charge. We believe the costs of developing and providing these services should be defrayed primarily with ethical advertising -- that is, an avoidance of pop-ups, spam, or other unreasonably obtrusive forms of advertising.

We seek to maximize the opportunities for people with similar interests and goals to connect, gather information, and network through the able2know service.

Connect to able2know.


Forums » About Us
https://able2know.org/about/


There, dear Tom and Oh ye all atheists here, please be guided accordingly, no more please no more of the inanity and vacuity of flippancy from you atheist guys, not please not in a2k.

OTHERWISE please just go away and nurse your Acquired Intelligence Deficiency Syndrome elsewhere.


See you guys all again tomorrow.
0 Replies
 
TomTomBinks
 
  1  
Tue 11 Jul, 2017 10:39 pm
@Susmariosep,
Susmario,
Do you believe you are the first person to draw these conclusions? Do you believe that your thought processes are unique or superior? If so you are profoundly deluded.
I too (along with countless others across the millennia) have marveled at the grandeur of the night sky. Have studied the minute details of a snail's shell, of a bird's feather, of a leaf. I have delighted in the innocence of children's laughter, at the beauty of my wife's face, at the skill of an artist's brush.
I have been awed by the power of a great waterfall, the majesty of a great mountain, the serenity of a great forest. I could go on and on.
And it has crossed my mind (as it has crossed the minds of millions of others) that this all is the work of god, or gods, or someone.
Ancient people no doubt drew this conclusion and explained it all with the existence of god.
I don't blame them. They didn't have science and a vast reservoir of knowledge to draw on as I do. (As we all do now).
In the distant past, many things were explained in mystical terms. It was thought disease was caused by evil spirits. Anything that was not plainly obvious was explained as the work of god, or spirits or demons. People didn't have time to sit around taking careful observations of nature, they were too busy trying to find enough food to stay alive. But human curiosity persisted, and over time observations were made. Knowledge accumulated, and eventually science was born. It was simple at first and only addressed the most immediate of our needs, the growing of crops, the domestication of animals, the observation of the heavens in order to tell time, the cutting of stone and wood for building, the digging of wells and irrigation and drainage ditches. Eventually as our standard of living improved, some had leisure time and some used it to study further. Science progressed. Writing and numbers were developed. Science progressed further. Metallurgy began. Civilizations grew. Science developed further. Then chemistry, astronomy, geology, biology. Then technology. The list goes on and though I over simplified, you see where I'm going with this, right? We've used our brains to figure things out, we no longer have to explain the world around us as a mystery ruled by gods or spirits. Science has given us ANSWERS.
Imagine for a moment yourself going into a large cavern for the first time, without any knowledge of geology or chemistry and seeing stalactites and stalagmites and other intricate formations. You might guess that this was the work of a sculptor. But armed with the knowledge of generations of scientists before you, you understand that these formations are the result of supersaturated solution of slightly acidic rainwater trickling down through the rock and leaving tiny deposits of precipitated minerals that over great stretches of time, resulted in the formations you see before you. No sculptor needed. Natural formations by natural processes. This principle applies to all things, even living things. Evolution of life over great stretches of time caused by changing conditions, favoring the successful. No god necessary.
What you call your "evidence" is not actually. You surmise. You have implied the existence of a creator because you lack understanding. Or maybe you don't lack it, but you reject it. Why, Susmario? What do you fear? You have the intelligence and the knowledge to reject god, yet you fear his wrath. You won't take the final step (just in case you're wrong and he really DOES exist).
I, and others like me represent the next stage in human development. Just a couple thousand years more and all of mankind will have outgrown god. We won't forget him, just like we won't forget making fire with rubbing sticks together, just like we won't forget the stone axe, but we won't depend on him anymore.
Don't dismiss my reasoning without careful consideration.
0 Replies
 
Susmariosep
 
  1  
Wed 12 Jul, 2017 04:31 pm
"Existence is anything at all which we know to be real from our conscious experience and reasoning."

"In concept God is first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning."

"Good is anything at all which man at least LIKES, as to strive to possess and enjoy." [17 words]

"Evil is anything at all which man at least DISLIKES, and strives to avoid or overcome." [16 words]
___________________________


Okay, Tom, you don't see evidence in the nose in our face, babies and roses, the sun and the moon in the sky, subatomic particles in the quantum realm, and the massive galaxies in distant space, for the existence of God, in concept as first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning?

Then tell me, what have you ever come to the conclusion of the existence of something, by way of evidence?
TomTomBinks
 
  1  
Wed 12 Jul, 2017 10:21 pm
@Susmariosep,
Quote:
Then tell me, what have you ever come to the conclusion of the existence of something, by way of evidence?

I think you're asking me how I know anything exists?
The only way anyone can know, by experiencing the thing somehow. By seeing or hearing or tasting or touching. This was never a question for me. I'm confident that what I experience exists.
0 Replies
 
Susmariosep
 
  1  
Thu 13 Jul, 2017 04:02 am
Dear Tom, please take the task to read attentively this post from yours truly.
____________________

"Existence is anything at all which we know to be real from our conscious experience and reasoning."

"In concept God is first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning."

"Good is anything at all which man at least LIKES, as to strive to possess and enjoy." [17 words]

"Evil is anything at all which man at least DISLIKES, and strives to avoid or overcome." [16 words]
___________________________

Quote:
From Tomtombinks

@Susmariosep,

Quote:
From Susmariosep
Then tell me, what have you ever come to the conclusion of the existence of something, by way of evidence?

I think you're asking me how I know anything exists?
The only way anyone can know, by experiencing the thing somehow. By seeing or hearing or tasting or touching. This was never a question for me. I'm confident that what I experience exists.


Dear Tom, I am so glad that you have finally come forth with your somewhat concept of what is existence, which concords with mine, see the comparison below:

From me: "Existence is anything at all which we know to be real from our conscious experience and reasoning."

From you: “The only way anyone can know [what is existence], [it is] by experiencing the thing somehow. By seeing or hearing or tasting or touching. This was never a question for me. I'm confident that what I experience exists”

Now, let us work together to concur on what is evidence, is that all right with you?

Because evidence is a way of arriving at the certainty of the existence of something, even without direct conscious experience of the something, but by inference from the existence of things which are connected to the thing being investigated on its existence.


Dear readers here, let us sit back and await to witness how Tom will behave now, for he has a good starting point that leads him to ultimately the existence of God, in concept as first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning.

You see, dear readers here, Tom might be the exception from among atheists: he is after truths, facts, logic, and the best thoughts of mankind from since the dawn of man’s conscious intelligence.

Whereas atheists as a collectivity are into what I call Acquired Intelligence Deficiency Syndrome, which consists essentially with dungeoning themselves in continuous unremitting evasiveness or playing “I don’t.”; or with one Krumple, he is all the time into uncertainty, not even exempting his papa and mama from uncertainty of their existence - how then did he ever get to have been brought into existence?

Atheists as a collectivity are all the time and everywhere into inanity and vacuity and stupidity, instead of the quest for truths, facts, logic, and the best thoughts of mankind from since the dawn of man’s conscious intelligence.
0 Replies
 
Susmariosep
 
  1  
Thu 13 Jul, 2017 11:48 am
"Existence is anything at all which we know to be real from our conscious experience and reasoning."

"In concept God is first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning."

"Good is anything at all which man at least LIKES, as to strive to possess and enjoy." [17 words]

"Evil is anything at all which man at least DISLIKES, and strives to avoid or overcome." [16 words]
___________________________


Dear readers, try this expedition, namely, read anything that is written by a human about anything at all, and concentrate on what to you are the crucially important words by which of which the writer expounds on an idea, like for atheists, God does not exist, or with quantum mechanics experts, that a particle exists in two places at the same time.

That is part 1 of the expedition, now part 2 of the expedition is to look up every instance one at a time of the appearance of the most vitally crucial words in the author's write up, to determine what is the author's concept or definition of each important word.

Part 3, ask yourself, has there been at all any concept or definition made by the author, or never at all has there been any concept or definition of the word?

You know, that is why there is endless debate over an issue, like for example on God exists or not: because parties in particular atheists just keep on and on and on with words, but they will not at all work with theists as to arrive at the concurrence of important words in the debate, like for example, the word existence and the word God.

Now, let us await with bated breath for Tom to react to my preceding post addressed to him.
TomTomBinks
 
  2  
Thu 13 Jul, 2017 09:30 pm
@Susmariosep,
Susmario,
So we seem to agree on the definitions of good and evil.
We agree on the definition of existence.
I suspect that we will agree on what constitutes evidence. I'll give the definition as found in the dictionary: "the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid."
Now you will claim that the world around us constitutes evidence of god.
I will disagree.
You will say "How can the wonders we see around us have come into being without god?"
And I will answer that understanding can come through the study of science.
You are no closer to proving the existence of god.
I cannot prove that god does not exist, and you can't prove that he does. So it comes down to belief, as it always has.
The important difference in our positions is that YOU make the extraordinary claim, so the burden of proof is on you.
I can point to science to explain the wonders of nature, without the necessity of a god.
0 Replies
 
Susmariosep
 
  1  
Fri 14 Jul, 2017 01:02 pm
Tom won’t think or can't think at all, and therefore does not dare to think on his own: on truths, facts, logic, and the best thoughts of mankind from since the dawn of man’s conscious intelligence.
______________________________

"Existence is anything at all which we know to be real from our conscious experience and reasoning."

"In concept God is first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning."

"Good is anything at all which man at least LIKES, as to strive to possess and enjoy." [17 words]

"Evil is anything at all which man at least DISLIKES, and strives to avoid or overcome." [16 words]
___________________________


Dear Tom, you tell me:

Quote:
From Tomtomlinks

I suspect that we will agree on what constitutes evidence. I'll give the definition as found in the dictionary: "the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid."


Please get to know yourself, dear Tom, you always run away and hide from having to do your very own personal thinking, instead you go to what other people think, like from folks who produce dictionaries.

I ask you, have you ever come to know the existence of something by way of evidence?

When you answer that question affirmatively and thus with something whose existence you come to know by way of evidence, then you and I can work further to hone finely and even conclusively on what is evidence, from both our parts.

Okay, get busy and do thinking on your own personal mind and learning, if you have any learning which is of any value to yourself, and produce the answer to my challenge to you:

“Have you ever come to know the existence of something by way of evidence?”


Dear readers, see next post from me.
Susmariosep
 
  1  
Fri 14 Jul, 2017 01:19 pm
Dear readers here, my purpose is to learn from others who think better than I think.

So far with atheists, they don't do nothing of any thinking that is better than how I think.

Why don't they think better than how I think?

It is because they nurse stubbornly their what I call Acquired Intelligence Deficiency Syndrome, which is essentially keeping fanatically loyal to their instinct to run away from facing the core issue of any grave concern at hand confronting mankind, how?

By evasiveness, and with one Krumple, by playing his stupid card of his not being able to even know whether he exists or not.

There, that is why I can't learn anything at all from atheists, and they don't learn anything outside their Acquired Intelligence Deficiency Syndrome.

That sickness leads to their continuous flight from facing any issue of serious concern for mankind, by evasiveness; or with one atheist, Krumple, by putting up his stupid philosophy of his not being certain at all that he exists at all.
0 Replies
 
TomTomBinks
 
  1  
Fri 14 Jul, 2017 07:24 pm
@Susmariosep,
Quote:
Please get to know yourself, dear Tom, you always run away and hide from having to do your very own personal thinking, instead you go to what other people think, like from folks who produce dictionaries.

Susmario,
Do you have a better definition? Do you think your definition of words is somehow more accurate than the one found in the dictionary?
If you slightly change the wording does it improve the definition?
Do you magically acquire knowledge without using other sources?
How do you know anything at all about.. let's choose astronomy? Do you have sophisticated telescopes at your house? Did you spend a lifetime making observations? No. You read a book or took a class and so you know a little about astronomy. That's how knowledge (and civilization) progresses, by adding to what others before you have learned.
I challenge you to give me one bit of knowledge that you have discovered independently.
Quote:
Tom, you always run away and hide from having to do your very own personal thinking

Susmario, you don't know what I always do because we have never met and have only been conversing for a short time. You can't possibly draw any conclusions about my behavior in such a short time. The fact that you think you can says a lot about your thought processes, which is that you draw conclusions without supporting evidence.
Quote:
I ask you, have you ever come to know the existence of something by way of evidence?

Now why would you ask me this? My previous post shows that I believe evidence is anything that I have experienced. You can only experience the world through your senses. So therefor your question is redundant.
I see your trying to make some kind of a point, and I think that point is that I am stupid. I assure you, Susmario, I am not stupid. My thoughts are well ordered and logical, and I have a good understanding of many fields of knowledge. I see you making cognitive errors, and I'm trying to help you see them.
0 Replies
 
Susmariosep
 
  1  
Sun 16 Jul, 2017 03:09 pm
Dear Tom, you say:
Quote:
From Tomtomlinks:
Quote:
From Susmariosep:

I ask you, have you ever come to know the existence of something by way of evidence?


Now why would you ask me this? My previous post shows that I [Tom] believe evidence is anything that I have experienced. You can only experience the world through your senses. So therefor your question is redundant.
I see your trying to make some kind of a point, and I think that point is that I am stupid. I assure you, Susmario, I am not stupid. My thoughts are well ordered and logical, and I have a good understanding of many fields of knowledge. I see you making cognitive errors, and I'm trying to help you see them.


Okay, Tom, you experience the existence of the nose in your face, so also I experience the nose in my face, and everyone experiences the nose in their face.

That for me is evidence all the way to God existing in concept as first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning.

Tell me, is your nose evidence to also like me, the existence of God in concept as first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning?

If not, then what is it evidence for?
TomTomBinks
 
  2  
Mon 17 Jul, 2017 08:09 am
@Susmariosep,
Susmario,
The mistake your making has been made many times over thousands of years. It is the mistake of assuming that if something has a function, it must have had a designer with that intent in mind. It's not necessarily so. Have you heard of evolution? It offers an explanation of the development of life that doesn't include god. There are theories in the field of cosmology that explain the origin of the universe without the necessity of god. before you reject these ideas, look into them in depth.
 

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