Where are you God?

Okay, dear Krumple, please tell me what is that NOTHING you have to experience which you cannot compare to what, and therefore you cannot know whether you have got the correct concept of existence.

Try this, you have experienced seeing a bird, a plane, seeing a stone thrown by a kid carelessly, but it is coming toward your nose, is that nothing to compare to what, whereby you conclude you cannot be sure whether what is existence in itself.

You know you have the knack of saying many words to say nothing of any meaning that is indicative of genuine thinking from your part, but it is obviously all evasiveness in your words.

Quote:

From Krumple:

Well we only have ONE perspective to chose from that we can honestly experience [/u][/i]right now. We do not know if there is in fact any other kind of existence. We can speculate but absolutely nothing is known about any other kind. Therefore this is all we can know for now, so it is what we call existence.

[...]

I have already explained the problem with discussing "existence". We have NOTHING to compare it with[/u][/i]. So we all make a base assumption that this, here (reality) as we experience it as existence itself.

1 Reply

@Susmariosep,

Susmariosep wrote:

Okay, dear Krumple, please tell me what is that NOTHING you have to experience which you cannot compare to what, and therefore you cannot know whether you have got the correct concept of existence.

Are you young and/or not read up on any philosophy? Let me take a moment to say, I bet both.

We can't step out side existence to determine it or to reveal that there are others. We are stuck inside this reality so we just assume this must be existence.

What this implies is that we could actually really not be existing at all. There are possible other explanations but none of them are able to be examined or compared. So we assume this is existence. That statement is not a fact nor absolute truth.

The thing is you can hold an apple in your hand and compare everything to that apple. We can see the differences and similar aspects to things in this way. But we can't do this same thing with existence. We can't step outside it to compare it with anything else. Therefore like I have now explained three times, we have nothing to compare existence with to determine it. Nothing.

I suggest you read up on some philosophy, you sound like you don't have any grasp on how we determine reality.

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Now, dear Krumple, you have come out clearly and definitively and certainly that you are not sure you exist, but still you have not defined what is existence for you.

Your philosophy if you have any and it is philosophy at all, it is totally and nonsensically that you can be clearly definitively and certainly sure that you doubt you exist, but still you don't have a definition of what is existence.

That is what I call in effect a philosophy of evasiveness.

So, tell me do you know your nose exists?

Dear readers here, let us all sit back and await with bated breath to witness what and how Krumple tells us about his nose, whether he is certainly not sure he has one or not.

Please stay tuned in on this exchange.

1 Reply

Dear readers here, I was late in replying to Krumple's last post, and had to decide whether finally I have to abstain altogether from further exchange with internet atheists, because I was thinking hard and long whether Krumple is a robot, which is designed and operated by his creator to execute itself exactly like a rotareneg tihsllub [read that in reverse, from right to left].

If that be the case, then I will have to report him, because the forum I am certain is intended to be a venue for exchange of ideas among humans, not robots.

However, there is the alternative, I will just neglect him altogether, if eventually he conspicuously fails the nose test.

Stay tuned, dear readers here.

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@Susmariosep,

Susmariosep wrote:

Now, dear Krumple, you have come out clearly and definitively and certainly that you are not sure you exist, but still you have not defined what is existence for you.

Your philosophy if you have any and it is philosophy at all, it is totally and nonsensically that you can be clearly definitively and certainly sure that you doubt you exist, but still you don't have a definition of what is existence.

That is what I call in effect a philosophy of evasiveness.

So, tell me do you know your nose exists?

Dear readers here, let us all sit back and await with bated breath to witness what and how Krumple tells us about his nose, whether he is certainly not sure he has one or not.

Please stay tuned in on this exchange.

Oh I see the mistake I made. I assumed you were actually intelligent. I see clearly now, you are a moron. I apologize for thinking you had an intellect.

1 Reply

@Krumple,

Don't let him rattle you, Krump. He talks in circles on purpose to piss you off.

1 Reply

@TomTomBinks,

TomTomBinks wrote:

Don't let him rattle you, Krump. He talks in circles on purpose to piss you off.

Yeah, thanks, I caught on late but you are right.

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See? Krumple, you are evasive again, I am asking you whether you know you have a nose or not, and you chose to not answer the question.

But I am sure you are not a robot, for you get irked, a robot does not get irked.

Okay, dear readers here, let us see whether we can get Krumple to do some genuine thinking.

Dear Krumple, let us do this exercise, name, for instance, all the parts of your body of which you are sure they exist, even though you have not produced your very self-thought out definition of what is existence.

No need for all the parts, just what is the most important, like for example, like the nose: because when you doubt your nose exists, I have a procedure for making you see that you do have a nose.

Now, after you are through with your body, you go through all the pieces of clothing you are covered with when you are dressed up.

Next, the things in your home which you are most familiar with, for example, the bed.

Have you at this point gotten the drift of this exercise?

When I come back, I will see if you are intelligent at all, as to know what I am guiding you toward, namely, a definition of what is existence which we will concur on.

As you are atheist and I am theist, I want to make you see reason as to come to the existence of God, in concept as first and foremost creator cause of everything with a beginning, can you do me a favor, guide me toward seeing reason to come to the non-existence of God, as per your concept of God.

But first, do you get my drift about enumerating things starting with your body parts which you know to exist?

Later.

2 Replies

@Susmariosep,

Susmariosep wrote:

But first, do you get my drift about enumerating things starting with your body parts which you know to exist?

No.

I do not know that any body part exists. It's impossible to know. We just assume as I have stated 4 times now that we can't verify it. How do you prove that something exists?

Here is an example of what I mean. In your dreams while you are asleep, occasionally you take what is happening to be real. If you are being chased or injured or what ever, at that moment you believe it's real. It's not until you wake up from the dream do you realize it was just a dream.

Well in this reality so far we don't know if we truly exist. We could be dreaming this life. Thinking we actually have bodies. We could be a brain in a vat just thinking this existence is real when it might not be. We can't honestly determine it and if you say we can, then you are full of ****. Which I'm already certain you are.

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@Susmariosep,

Wow! You are a condescending prick! No wonder the Romans used to feed you people to the lions. I vote we bring that tradition back.
Can you prove the existence of God? If you can you'd be the first and I'd love to hear your "logic" !

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Dear Krumple, I did not read the rest of your post, after reading this text:

"I do not know that any body part exists. It's impossible to know. We just assume as I have stated 4 times now that we can't verify it. How do you prove that something exists?"

You see, my purpose is to get us to concur on concepts and principles in regard to our knowledge of reality,

Now, it seems that your position in regard to our knowledge is that you do not know for example any body part exists for yourself I assume, and it is not only your body parts, but everything, for you say or ask me: "How do you prove that something exists?"

Now, I have the option to leave you alone because it is almost impossible to communicate with a human for whom everything has to be proven to exist.

Or I can continue with you because I seem to get the impression that you are intelligent and possess learning.

So I choose the second option, because I am very curious to know how you think if at all you think,

Now, you have brought up this question addressed to me: "How do you prove that something exists?"

As usual from my practice in coming to concur with people like you who are resistant to communicate at all with me, because they fear that they will entrap themselves, but that fear is not healthy; so as you are otherwise a healthy human in term of physiology, and your brain is all right I assume, so your lack of health is psychological in regard to communication.

It is from your part, this position that I have to prove everything to exist before I can get to communicate with you, but you do communicate with me, by asking me an to me intelligent question, namely:

"How do you prove that something exists?"

So, you are not dead in term of communication at all, because you can still ask an intelligent question, that is very good.

Wherefore, in regard to how I should prove to you something to exist, like your nose, I inquire of you:

What is your concept of proving something to exist, or more in particular: Do you at all have any method by which you prove to yourself something to exist?

I have to get to know how you prove to yourself something to exist, so that I can follow your method and thus succeed to prove to you something to exist, and thus convince you.

So, please tell me how you prove to yourself something to exist.

Do not write anything else, but just tell me how you prove to yourself something to exist.

1 Reply

@Susmariosep,

Susmariosep wrote:

Do not write anything else, but just tell me how you prove to yourself something to exist.

First of all, you can't dictate how I am suppose to respond to you. I will respond in any way I think necessary.

Do you know what a rhetorical question is? When I asked how do you prove something exists, I wasn't expecting an answer. But the funny part is, you didn't answer it any way.

I am pretty certain you are either a POE or a troll. No one tries to dodge answering a question so much and completely ignore responses and pretend as if they are not addressing your stupid comments.

Notice that NO ONE else is engaging you? Because many regulars on this forum are now use to picking out the fake posters. You are exhibiting all those traits.

So after four explanations as to how it is impossible to prove something exists, do I need a fith attempt?

There are two aspects here. One is we can assume this (reality) is real and thereby suggest that we exist solely on this experience. But we have to ignore any other possibility.

If you were honest in the integrity of logic and reason you would acknowledge that we do not have a defacto way to determine if we exist or not. But you won't acknowledge that because if you do then there is no more trolling for you on this topic. So you will ignore it and continue to ramble on. Prove me wrong.

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https://able2know.org/topic/164388-20#post-6455330
Disclosure and Disclaimer:
I am a theist who loves to find out how atheists think, so that I will know that they don't think as good as I think; that is why they deny God exists, but it is all due to poor thinking from the part of atheists.

So, dear atheists here, you will accuse me of being a troll? Hey, that is evasiveness.

See? precisely, that is poor thinking, because good thinking does not consist in evasiveness, and that is all I find atheists to be into, nothing but evasiveness.

Good thinking in the present case requires that you find out how your thinking is not as good or even better than my thinking, how?

How? Engage in thinking with me on how you got to become an atheist, and demand that I engage with you in thinking over how I got to become a theist.

You still think that I am a troll?

Okay, to be a good thinker and you successfully come up with the conclusion from your good thinking that I am a troll, and trolling is not allowed in this forum:

Please report me to the powers that be here in this forum, you owe that to your good thinking.
-----------------------------

Okay, Krumple, the present issue at hand is to for you to react to this request as per published at the end of my immediately preceding post, as follows:

Quote:

So, please tell me how you prove to yourself something to exist.

Do not write anything else, but just tell me how you prove to yourself something to exist.

The end of your preceding post is as follows:

Quote:

If you were honest in the integrity of logic and reason you would acknowledge that we do not have a defacto way to determine if we exist or not. But you won't acknowledge that because if you do then there is no more trolling for you on this topic. So you will ignore it and continue to ramble on. Prove me wrong.

You want me to "acknowledge that we do not have a defacto way to determine if we exist or not."

Don't include me, if you "do not have a defacto way to determine if you exist or not."

That's too very very very very [nth times]... bad for you, but I tell you, try this action in all attentive full self-conscious composure: bang your nose against a hard concrete wall.

1 Reply

@Susmariosep,

Susmariosep wrote:

I tell you, try this action in all attentive full self-conscious composure: bang your nose against a hard concrete wall.

What does that prove? Nothing. Because any sensation is at the same time possibly simulated. Just like the dream example I gave. While you are dreaming you can be led to believe something hurts or injures you while you are asleep but once you wake up you realize it was just a dream.

Your trolling is getting old. You either don't really want to engage or you are completely incapable. You don't have the skills or understanding of what it means to prove something.

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@jamiemellien,

Jamie, God is not a super hero dropped from heaven to act on a certain problem or circumstance. You are right saying "i feel like im 11 years old again"; because your spiritual maturity does not exceed that level. I am not saying that your'e belief is not developed but still you have to remember that God is not anywhere you are looking for, He is inside you, whispering in your conscience; reminding you that the human nature present in your soul is always there. All He can do is to respect it and remind you that He gave a natural law in your heart; to do good and avoid evil. Job would say, God takes everything but also returns everything. The most important thing in life is that, you are praying and you remember Him. I don't like god's but I love God.

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Dear Krumple, just touch your nose facing the mirror, with several family members or any office mates, etc. witnessing you, then afterwards ask them whether you have touched your nose, and does that prove that you exist and they exist.

What about that you have posted your preceding message to me and I received it and am now replying to it, doesn't that prove to you and me that we exist?

At least to me and I assure you: that I exist, and from your having posted the message to me and it got to me and is on my monitor screen, that all proves that you exist and I exist.

Dear readers here, do you also doubt or you cannot prove that we all exist who are in this forum with our participation, as also the moderators, the admins, etc.?

Anyway, dear Krumple, tell me some part of your body, part that you are not or cannot prove the existence of, but you already declared that didn't you, and you have not retracted your declaration; in fact not only a part but your own body and your own whole entire self you are not sure, or you cannot prove to exist.

Okay, tell me, what is that philosophy you refer to which is the ground by which you came to this idea: that you cannot and I and all mankind cannot be sure or cannot prove to themselves, that they exist?

I am writing this post sort of extemporaneously, so I will just ask you to tell me, this is the part you need to just reply to, no need to make comments to each or several lines of my post:

Have you ever made love with your wife and sired a child and brought up the child, all the time not sure of everything in the whole process and history, the end result is a child which you perhaps are still bringing up to this day, and expect one day, what? that one day he also will proclaim to mankind that he is not sure his dad and mom are his progenitors, and they neither are sure or can prove that they are his parents - no matter that dna tests of you three detect otherwise?

1 Reply

@Susmariosep,

Susmariosep wrote:

Dear Krumple, just touch your nose facing the mirror, with several family members or any office mates, etc. witnessing you, then afterwards ask them whether you have touched your nose, and does that prove that you exist and they exist.

No. It in no way supports existence to be true. It's one possibility that only YOU are self aware and everyone else is either a figment of your imagining or synthetically created to act as something for you to interact with.

Once again I go to the dream example. In your dream let's say you invent a person whom you have never met. They seem real while the dream is happening. You interact and engage them until you wake up and realize this person in your dream was just your imagination.

Susmariosep wrote:

What about that you have posted your preceding message to me and I received it and am now replying to it, doesn't that prove to you and me that we exist?

Once again, you could be completely solo in this whole thing, and I am just filler here playing a role. You cant prove that I actually exist in the same way as you. Sure you can cut me and I'll bleed like you but you can not determine if I am like you in thought, feeling or reality. I could be just your imagination. You cant prove either case.

Susmariosep wrote:

At least to me and I assure you: that I exist, and from your having posted the message to me and it got to me and is on my monitor screen, that all proves that you exist and I exist.

Once again. It in no way proves anything. This all can be made up for just you. You are the only one who actually exists. The rest of the people in the world are just there as filler to give you some depth, so you don't feel alone?

Susmariosep wrote:

Dear readers here, do you also doubt or you cannot prove that we all exist who are in this forum with our participation, as also the moderators, the admins, etc.?

You can stop addressing everyone else, they don't care about your rhetoric.

Susmariosep wrote:

Anyway, dear Krumple, tell me some part of your body, part that you are not or cannot prove the existence of, but you already declared that didn't you, and you have not retracted your declaration; in fact not only a part but your own body and your own whole entire self you are not sure, or you cannot prove to exist.

None of it can be proven.

Susmariosep wrote:

Okay, tell me, what is that philosophy you refer to which is the ground by which you came to this idea: that you cannot and I and all mankind cannot be sure or cannot prove to themselves, that they exist?

Solipsism from the Latin solus, meaning 'alone', and ipse, meaning 'self'. It is the philosophical idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist. As an epistemological position, solipsism holds that knowledge of anything outside one's own mind is unsure; the external world and other minds cannot be known and might not exist outside the mind. As a metaphysical position, solipsism goes further to the conclusion that the world and other minds do not exist.

Susmariosep wrote:

I am writing this post sort of extemporaneously, so I will just ask you to tell me, this is the part you need to just reply to, no need to make comments to each or several lines of my post:

If your question isn't specific or there are parts of a broad question that requires two seperate answers then I have to break it down or else you will assume the single response is relative to all aspects of the question. In other words you'll get the wrong impression.

Susmariosep wrote:

Have you ever made love with your wife and sired a child and brought up the child, all the time not sure of everything in the whole process and history, the end result is a child which you perhaps are still bringing up to this day, and expect one day, what? that one day he also will proclaim to mankind that he is not sure his dad and mom are his progenitors, and they neither are sure or can prove that they are his parents - no matter that dna tests of you three detect otherwise?

I'm not a male first of all. But I can still answer your silly line of questioning.

No it in no way means we really exist. It all could be a hallucination or a dream. We can't be sure and there is no way to be certain either way. All we have is this experience so we assume this is existence. It's fair but not defacto truth.

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Dear atheist colleague Krumple:

First, I am glad that you are no longer into getting so irked up, and that is not good for your thinking at all.

I will just reproduce my last paragraph in my immediately preceding post:

Quote:

Have you ever made love with your wife and sired a child and brought up the child, all the time not sure of everything in the whole process and history, the end result is a child which you perhaps are still bringing up to this day, and expect one day, what? that one day he also will proclaim to mankind that he is not sure his dad and mom are his progenitors, and they neither are sure or can prove that they are his parents - no matter that dna tests of you three detect otherwise?

Now, I am sure your daddy and mommy made love and begot you, and they both brought you up, so that now you are into posting in this web forum: so, you are still not sure you exist as they exist or existed?

In other words: you don't have certainty that you had your daddy and mommy and they did have love-making and thus your mommy gave birth to you, and they put you in school, and they worked as to pay for everything to keep you alive, healthy, and now grown up to be a useful member of society, useful of course to yourself and to mankind?

Dear readers, you will concur with me that the entity called Krumple is not thinking at all, when he again makes up words that are really bizarre, because he still insists he is not sure he has parents, etc.

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Under a rock I assure you.

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Dear readers here, I got deviated by Krumple with his inane thought that he cannot be sure of his existence.

Who cares about his inane thought; we know for a fact he exists as we exist with certainty, even though he can deviate folks from my desire to expound on how investigating existence will lead us to the existence of God, in concept as first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning.

Let him persist in his inane 'philosophy' of not having certainty of his own existence, we have certainty of the fact that he exists.

And when he gets run over by a truck and dies, then he is rid of his 'philosophy' and we are now again certain of the opposite fact, namely: that, yes! he does not exist anymore.

This kind of inane thinking is also found in Zeno with his paradox of the race between Achilles and the tortoise: that Achilles cannot ever catch up with the tortoise, when he Achilles just gives an inch or even less of head start to the tortoise.

Of course that is all in the inane thought of Zeno, for in reality outside of Zeno's inane thought (as also with Krumple's inane thought), Achilles does catch up with the tortoise.

Lesson from Zeno's paradox and also Krumple's paradox:

Don't let inane folks fool you with their inane thought all in their mind; take to the reality outside their mind, and you will see that it is all vacuous thinking in their inane mind, with manipulation of concepts and words: so that you get fooled with their conflating thoughts with realities outside of thoughts and independent of thoughts.

That is what I tell you, dear readers, is the distinction between what I call the conceptival realm and the objectival realm - more of that when I explain how my thesis:

Quote:

"I exist therefore God exists, God in concept as first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning is true."

See next post.

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Where are you God?

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