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Do you agree with public smoking bans?

 
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2005 04:13 pm
i have noted with interest that we are aiming towards 'zero-emission' for automobile exhaust, but seem to have have trouble to aim for 'zero-emission' for smokers. i further think that reduction in automobile emissions (and other toxic substances of all kinds) should be pushed really hard by all industries. there is far too much pollution in this world and reducing pollution is probably more important and life prolonging than any other effort. (there are certainly more people killed by pollution than by tsunamis and other natural disasters.) of course industries and governments reap great profits from pollution, so i don't think we can expect drastic action from those two bodies. hbg
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makemeshiver33
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2005 07:31 pm
I made the stupid mistake of picking up the smoking habit about 5 years ago. Mind you that I'm 34 now, what was I thinking? But beforehand, I believed that smokers should have the same rights as non-smokers...and still feel that way.

The thing that now aggravates me is, being in a designated smoking area and a non-smoker show up and start thier coughing routine. And expect you to put it out. Excuse me, but you in a smoking area and if you don't like it, move on.........
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Feb, 2005 10:14 am
Gee whizz:-

Facts.
1-Non smokers are boring.This is due to the beneficial effects of nicotine on brain function being eschewed for personal safety reasons which in themselves can soon result in catatonia.

2-Bars are not for drinking they are for socialising.It is much cheaper to drink at home.

The basic idea of the smoking ban is to close down pubs for one of two possible reasons.Maybe both.

A lot of pub sites are more valuable for other purposes and to get change of use permissions might need proof of economic dysfunction which will quickly follow wall to wall boredom.

The Govt would like to see us all drinking at home so that our capacity for subversion is reduced.They don't wish to see a welding ban in the workplace do they?

I expect to see people walking around in breathing apparatus fairly soon.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Feb, 2005 10:19 am
Also:-

The professional groups who are agitating on smoking are not going to shut up shop when they have banned smoking.What's next then?Driving?
Drinking?Being bloody born?
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Feb, 2005 10:20 am
Also:-

The professional groups who are agitating on smoking are not going to shut up shop when they have banned smoking.What's next then?Driving?
Drinking?Being bloody born?That's deadly.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Feb, 2005 10:20 am
Also:-

The professional groups who are agitating on smoking are not going to shut up shop when they have banned smoking.What's next then?Driving?
Drinking?Being bloody born?That's deadly.
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Letty
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2005 09:47 am
spendius, I agree with you from this viewpoint. It's not really about smoking, it's about control. Some time ago on A2K, I pointed out the series of seemingly harmless laws passed that most people think is a good thing. From that point on, we see the right to privacy being eroded in the U.S. and hamburger is on the right track. Pollution and its evolution are what should be our main concern.
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2005 01:30 pm
letty : i don't see anything wrong with people smoking in the 'privacy' of their own home. i think there a lot of other habits - i don't want to spell them out here - that are less harmful/annoying to others than smoking, yet most people would object to such 'activities' in public. one of the problems with tobacco is (imo) that governments make good money from the taxes collected , yet do not make good resources available to help people reduce/quit smoking - preaching doesn't do it. it's somewhat like gambling, being addicted to gambling surely is not good for individuals nor society as a whole, but ... (in ontario the government has stated openly that they require the revenue from gambling to run the government ... seems to me there is something wrong in that approach). ... but i also know that some people gamble because they believe that they are going to win for sure; not much one can do to convince them of the sad facts ! hbg
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Letty
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2005 02:24 pm
Well, hamburger, it's the same with the lottery here in Florida. All of the proceeds are supposed to go to education, but, as always, there is a big catch.Lottery profits only kick in when the general fund in education is depleted.

As for tax, cigarettes are taxed big time, as well as gasoline.I suppose I should quit moaning and find out more about the state budget. I already know about the federal budget, unfortunately.

I love comparing our two countries, as well as the other countries on this board. It gives us an understanding of the world, in a way.

aside:
Loved the picture of you and Mrs. hamburger on your honeymoon.
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2005 04:13 pm
letty : thanks for your kind comments on our honeymoon pics. we had already filed our application to come to canada at that time and had booked our 'honeymoon cruise '(on a 1,500 ton dutch freighter ! but we felt like the rockefeller's on that trip - lunch and dinner with the captain every day ! of course, we were only 11 passengers). hbg
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Letty
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2005 06:00 pm
You know, hamburger. Pictures capture the moments of happiness. and if the Grand Duke will pardon my lapsing a moment:

Wading in surf or still cold water,
Looking at sky and discovering each other.
Pleasant insanity,
Freighter and rhymes,
The sweetness of memories
Caught up in time.

For you and the mrs.
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Waldo2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2005 01:39 pm
...
Thomas wrote:
I don't smoke, but I didn't vote because I missed the option: "Depends on who does the banning". I'm fine when the government bans smokers from its own offices, airports, and other closed rooms it owns itself. I'm fine when restaurant owners imposes a smoking ban in their own establishment, seperates the smokers from the non-smokers, or comes up with some other arrangement they expect to be workable.

But when the government bans smoking from privately owned places, it interferes with a decision that isn't its business, and which it is incompetent to make. I oppose this kind of intervention.


Thank you, Thomas, for illuminating the other side of the issue. My mother is a health professional who has recently lobbied to have a smoking ban implemented in my state (Oklahoma USA).

I, on the other hand, am a former restaurant manager. It seems my mother had never considered it a business rights issue, not to any extent. To her, the issue was solely one of the health effects of second-hand smoke on the non-smoker.

We had many talks about it, and I like to think we both came closer to the middle ground. At the time, I was a smoker (I quit about 20 months ago). Still, I maintain my stance to this day. I'm not entirely against the provision, but I got a glimpse of the public support for the ban in my area.

The restaurant I worked for turned non-smoking the day that the ban was announced, despite the fact that all businesses were given until 2006 to comply. Our sales plummeted.

During that month (we went back to offering a smoking section after a month), I received comment from a handful of non-smokers, thanking my business for choosing to eliminate smoking in our store. However, the reason I had time to sit and receive the compliments was that the damn restaurant was EMPTY, save for the few non-smoking tables.

When we switched back to smoking, I began to get negative comments from the patrons who supported our early implementation of the ban. The would ask, "Why have you chosen to ignore us and to all smoking again?"

My response: "You, and other non-smokers, did not vote with your dollars. You did not sufficiently support our business while we tried to cater to your wishes. On the other hand, the smokers most certainly voted with their dollars; they stopped coming in. "

I would then point out that if non-smoking restaurants were supported better by the non-smoking public, then we would not need legislation to make the ban take place. Good, old commercialist economics would prompt the change if it were good for business.

Now, I recognize that my store was the lone non-smoking store in a sea of permissive restaurants (permissive of smoking). If ALL restaurants are forced to disallow smoking, then the playing field will be leveled.

At this point, I'm a fence-rider on this issue. I would not want the government to dictate personal behaviour, but I strongly believe that cigarette smoking is one of the great evils that I've faced in my life. I would that I had not had to deal with it at all. I'm delighted that my nieces and nephews are not exposed to it like I was (I remember getting candy cigarettes as a child).

Sorry, I got a little long-winded there.
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