Do you have to get legally married to have a wedding?

Re: Do you have to get legally married to have a wedding?


This just seems really odd to me. You'd pay more taxes by being married and not having kids? Whoever you are getting your info from is full of BS. Not every couple in the world gets married just to have kids. Many couples actually have kids without even being married! How bout that? I have a friend who has a girlfriend and they have 3 kids together. They threw themselves a "wedding" (actually just a reception) so it seemed like a wedding, just for the presents and the money. Now is THAT tacky or what? This crap about wanting a wedding without legally being married is total, total, BS in my opinion. If the "commitment" is there, then get married! Who the hell cares if you ever have kids? If you just want to live together then do that too. But, jesus Fu**ing christ, Marie Antoinette, you can't always have your (wedding) cake and eat it too. Just my 2 cents. This crap pi$$es me off....

Sorry if I sounded mean, but I got the feeling you and your boyfriend are just in it for the money and the gifts. This is MY opinion only....

Well, hey, these are many different subjects.

The short answer is that a wedding is the ceremony for marriage.

But to talk more,

Lady J., as you probably know, but not all who are just about eight or ten years younger than me actually do know,
a lot changed in the US, even in the at-the-forefront California, in the early to mid sixties. Not being married and having children was deep no no around the very early sixties, a paralyzing no no, and moved towards acceptance in the later sixties, as everyone knows. Since I was there, I can testify to the giant change.

To 'paint the sky', I think you need to know some more.

People who are married don't have to have children. Sometimes they want children and for various reasons can't or don't, though many do, and do.

and some who are not married do have children, for various reasons - not avoiding having them by known methods, or choosing to because they want to and aren't interested in marriage as a concept
or are but not in a legal sense
or are romantic but not in a legal sense.
or are just dealing with day to day things that happen.
Or she can't get him to marry her
or he can get her to marry him.


So what is your question really, can you have a wedding party? No, a wedding is a celebration of marriage. (Er, of a civil commitment.)

not at all, we'd mostly be having the wedding for our families and for the experience itself. i hadn't even considered that it would be taken in that way... i'm sorry if i sounded selfish. that isn't at all what i meant to put across.

look, if all i'm going to get is insults, forget i asked. i just wanted to know if it was possible to celebrate the committment without getting the certificate.

and i know that having kids isn't the only reason to get married. i myself was under the impression that there were tax breaks, not more taxes, but we've been told otherwise. if this was BS, i'd like to know. but i'd also like proof. i've been having trouble finding any. so i'm asking for help.

No. You cannot have a "real" wedding without being legally married.

Yes. You can have a "celebrate our union" party and ask all your friends and family. You will not be married.

Hence, you will have none of the benefits of marriage: no health benefits, no pension rights, no rights to make medical decisions if your spouse is unable to make decisions.....

The Limbo of the Loving Unmarried is why gays are fighting for marriage rights--or at least civil unions.

Posted by Boomerang on another A2K thread:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=38192&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=apology+gays&start=80

Without marriage:


1. No automatic right to make health care decisions for partner

2. No automatic right to visit partner in the hospital

3. No right to sue for wrongful death if partner negligently killed

4. No right to consent or refuse consent to an autopsy of partner's body

5. No vested right to be buried in cemetery plot with partner

6. No automatic right to inherit cemetery plot

7. No automatic right to make arrangements for funeral or dispose of deceased partner's body

8. No right to donate partner's body or organs after death

9. No automatic right to inherit deceased partner's estate

10. Required to comply with childcare facility regulations when caring only for partner's children

11. Required to comply with childcare facility regulations when caring only for partner's children

12. A prior will is not automatically revoked when the relationship ends

13. No right to be notified in a public notice before partner's will is destroyed by an attorney

14. No preference to be appointed personal representative of deceased partner's estate

15. No right to continue to live in the deceased partner's home for one year after partner's death

16. No automatic right to notice in matters involving deceased partner's estate

17. No right to support from deceased partner's estate

18. No right to demand one-quarter share of partner's estate if will leaves less than that

19. No automatic right to notice that a conservatorship or guardianship is being filed against partner unless currently living together

20. May not get highest preference by court to be appointed as guardian or conservator for incapacitated partner



21 No right to obtain life insurance on partner

22 No uninsured motorist insurance coverage for partner

23 No right to spousal cash surrender valuation of term life insurance on partner

24 No right to coverage under deceased partner's group health insurance plan.

25 No protection for partner's home in bankruptcy

26 Private conversations with partner are not protected in court

27 Conversations with a marriage counselor are not protected in court

28 No automatic education on fetal alcohol syndrome

29 No court-ordered counseling upon divorce

30 No right to crisis counseling through state crime victims' compensation fund if partner is a victim of international terrorism

31 Partner not responsible for family expenses

32 No automatic paternity for children

33 Must testify against partner in a court case

34 Must surrender home to satisfy lien for partner's unpaid medical treatment in long-term care facility

35 No right to sue long-term care facility that fails to discharge lien in a timely manner once overdue charges for partner are paid

36 No right to sell property qualified for farm use assessment to partner without disqualification

37 No right to avoid court appointment of a property manager during foreclosure of partner's home

38 No right to maintain a dwelling on EFU (exclusive farm use) property even if occupied by farm operator's partner

39 No right to maintain a dwelling in a farm or forest zone even if lawfully created or acquired by the owner's partner

40 No right as a partner to a landowner to obtain a "landowner preference tag" for hunting from the Fish & Wildlife Commission

41 No right to private visits in long-term care facility

42 No right to receive personal effects from deceased partner's body

43 No access to partner's death record

44 No automatic right of survivorship for jointly owned real property

45 No right to loss of support payments from the state crime victims' compensation fund if partner killed in a crime

46 No right to family therapy from state crime victims' compensation fund in case of child sexual abuse

47 No right to crisis counseling through state crime victims' compensation fund if partner is a victim of international terrorism

48 No right to exclude capital gain on principal residence based on partner's ownership

49 No court-ordered life insurance upon divorce

50 No right to deduct partner's medical expenses on income tax return

51 No right to receive deceased partner's wages

52 No right to deceased partner's wage claim against non-paying employer

53 No right to work on partner's farm for less than minimum wage

54 No eligibility for scholarship if partner is disabled or killed on the job

55 No right to sue for partner's death that was a result of an unsafe workplace

56 No right to workers' compensation benefits if partner disabled or killed on the job

57 No right to opt out of workers' compensation insurance as a family business

58 No right to sue non-employer for negligently killing partner on the job

59 No right to continue workers' compensation benefits until remarriage if partner is killed or disabled on the job

60 No right to examine or get copy of autopsy report of deceased partner



61. No right to receive personal effects from deceased partner's body

62. No access to partner's death record

63. No automatic right of survivorship for jointly owned real property

64. No right to sell property qualified for farm use assessment to partner without disqualification

65. No right to loss of support payments from the state crime victims' compensation fund if partner killed in a crime

66. No right to family therapy from state crime victims' compensation fund in case of child sexual abuse

67. Must pay taxes on employer health insurance benefits for partner

68. No right to exclude capital gain on principal residence based on partner's ownership

69. Must pay taxes on employer health insurance benefits for partner

70. No right to deduct partner's medical expenses on income tax return

71. No right to receive deceased partner's wages

72. No right to deceased partner's wage claim against non-paying employer

73. No right to work on partner's farm for less than minimum wage

74. No eligibility for scholarship if partner is disabled or killed on the job

75. No right to sue for partner's death that was a result of an unsafe workplace

76. No right to workers' compensation benefits if partner disabled or killed on the job

77. No right to opt out of workers' compensation insurance as a family business

78. No right to sue non-employer for negligently killing partner on the job

79. No right to continue workers' compensation benefits until remarriage if partner is killed or disabled on the job

80. A prior will is not automatically revoked when entering a new relationship


81. No automatic right to special retirement benefit after death of partner who was a police officer or a firefighter

82. No right as unmarried couple with children to be treated as married for workers' compensation rights and benefits

83. No automatic right to partner's group insurance provided by public retirement system.

84. No right to opt out of unemployment insurance as a family business

85. No right to receive deceased partner's unemployment benefits

86. Required to comply with farm labor contractor regulations when working only with partner

87. Subjected to employment discrimination laws when hiring partner in family business

88. Employer can refuse to hire or discharge employee because it employs or has employed partner

89. No protection through emergency court orders in case of divorce

90. No tax exemption for dividing property upon divorce

91. No dividing retirement plans upon divorce

92. No automatic right to receive partner's judicial retirement pension

93. No automatic right to make retirement selection from deceased partner's public employee retirement benefit

94. No automatic right to partner's pre-Medicare insurance benefit provided by public retirement system

95. No automatic right to partner's Medicare supplemental insurance paid for by public retirement system

96. No automatic right to approve partner's public employee retirement choices

97. No automatic right to special pre-retirement public employee retirement benefit after death of partner who was a judge

98. No right for partner of disabled or killed public safety officer to Public Safety Memorial Fund benefits

99. No automatic right to receive partner's public employment benefits

100. No right to retired partner's health insurance offered by local government employers

Perhaps you might be penalized by the so-called "marriage tax"--but without legal marriage your union has no rights under the law.

Given the current swelling of homophobia, all LTA's are going to be in for hard times. Common law marriages are no longer accepted in many states.

Marriage? No marriage? Your choice--but do some research before you decide.

thank you. that was the kind of information i wanted. my partner and i will be sure to think all of this over carefully.

And, paintthesky, I did not mean to be insulting, I regret if you took it that way.



and, remember these words,

Taxes may change.

That may sound sarcastic, but is true, decisions on what is or is not taxed change over the years.

Mutual Powers of Attorney and cross-beneficiary wills assigning assets to the surviving partner obviate some, but not all of the drawbacks. There are other lagal/contractual measures which can be taken to nitigate some of the disadvantages inherenbt with a non-marriage union. Be aware also that in some states, living together, sharing assets, expenses, and domestic responsibilities for a certain period of time may de facto result in a "Common Law Marriage", which can occasion its own unique set of perplexities.

Consult an attorney ... that's gonna be cheaper than anything that turns out to have been a mistake whichever way you go. Know what you're doin', and why, before you do it.

I guess I should admit I have a good friend who met with her girlfriends to tell us that she and L had gone downtown and gotten married, for tax reasons. We all, in the tradition of confrontation that was so popular in the late sixties, hit on her, whaddyamean?

They did indeed have, at the time very businessy reasons for marrying, re taxes.

Been over thirty years now, and other reasons have superceded.

Please, don't let taxes be the reason you link up for life commitment. Talk more, and see if you both mean commitment.

As I hope the qualifications for who can marry does.

paintthesky--

In fairness to other members of A2K. The thrust of your question seemed to be:



You mentioned taxes, but you didn't ask for logical reasons for real marriage.

I'm glad we've been helpful. Welcome to A2K and I hope you stick around.

Timber and I come from different directions to a similar point of view re knowing your legal rights as you make different steps.

Yeah, mebbe ... but you type better'n me

Yes, but it is only nearing 8pm here, see what I have to say around eleven...

Or maybe not.

in any case, Timber and I are way divergent on opinion, the difficulty being that you don't see me being literate in elucidation of my thoughts.

Okay, okay, that isn't difficult to most a2kers, but concerns me when you can get my attention.....

smiling..

I find you wonderfully literate, Osso, and I think you elucidate quite well ... charmingly sometimes, pointedly at others, but always succintly and cogently. All in all, not bad for a Corgi with a California accent and Italian yearnings :wink:

The "marriage penalty" is a thing, quite silly. I remember reading about it when we were considering getting married as well. I know that various politicians have made noises about getting rid of it, but don't know where things stand now (I was married 8 years ago.)

I've been to a hetero "commitment ceremony", it was nice.

Details of "marriage penalty":

http://www.savewealth.com/news/9905/marriagepenalty.html#penalties