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Wisconsin School OKs Creationism Teaching

 
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Nov, 2004 02:13 pm
snood wrote:
I do personally hope that American children are taught that it is possible to believe in things that aren't necessarily readily found under a microscope.


Like the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, and Santa Claus. Yeah, I see what you're gettin' at. In that light, I suppose I'd have no objection to Creationsism. Thanks for pointin' that out.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Nov, 2004 02:29 pm
Quote:
I said I don't have a big dog in the fight, but I do personally hope that American children are taught that it is possible to believe in things that aren't necessarily readily found under a microscope.


Sometimes belief isnt the keypoint in education. Facts form tthe bases of belief in the sciences, otherwise we might as well teach alchemy.I think that survey courses can be structured so that they can present many systems of origins andlife on the planet (among other topics). I also think that such a course, in order to be fair, must not be an ambush of anyones belief system. The poor teachers must first be trained well enough to be the facilitator of a good educational experience for the kids.

I heard on NPR "science Friday" today, this very subject and its obvious that the forgotten people in thhis topic were the teachesr. We take for granted that they are trained to handle the nuances of evolution , as well as Intelligent Design, and its obvious that theyre often limited.
0 Replies
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Nov, 2004 02:40 pm
timberlandko wrote:
snood wrote:
I do personally hope that American children are taught that it is possible to believe in things that aren't necessarily readily found under a microscope.


Like the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, and Santa Claus. Yeah, I see what you're gettin' at. In that light, I suppose I'd have no objection to Creationsism. Thanks for pointin' that out.


Well put, timberlandko. I'm still trying to figure out what snood was advocating there...
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Nov, 2004 05:10 pm
timberlandko wrote:
snood wrote:
I do personally hope that American children are taught that it is possible to believe in things that aren't necessarily readily found under a microscope.


Like the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, and Santa Claus. Yeah, I see what you're gettin' at. In that light, I suppose I'd have no objection to Creationsism. Thanks for pointin' that out.


Well I was thinking more in terms of things like courage, integrity, charity, character, love and other things that aren't detectable by scientific exploration, but nonetheless need modeling. And your sarcasm doesn't make the debate more interesting, or your point more compelling.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Nov, 2004 07:26 pm
I would submit, snood, that much academically valid, forensically sound, independently verifiable evidence exists of " ... courage, integrity, charity, character, love" etc, while the converse is true of the Creationism absurdity. I further will submit that it is my conviction that the unthinking emotion and partisan litigation surrounding efforts to provide the bastard premis legitimacy are marked for failure.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Nov, 2004 08:13 pm
You can "submit" whatever you like. I suspect we'll just have to disagree about what's measurable with instruments and graphs, and what's not; and probably also what's important for teacher's to teach, and what's not.

No need to be nasty.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Nov, 2004 08:15 pm
What do you perceive to have been nasty?
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Nov, 2004 09:52 pm
shall we agree that this horse has expired sufficiently so that further whuppins will not have any resuscatory effects?
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2004 09:57 am
farmerman wrote:
shall we agree that this horse has expired sufficiently so that further whuppins will not have any resuscatory effects?


This reminded me of the Monty Python skit about the "expired" parrot Smile
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2004 09:59 am
he's only sleeping
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2004 10:13 am
he's pining
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2004 10:43 am
For the chronologically disadvantaged:



Dead Parrot Sketch



The cast:

MR. PRALINE
John Cleese
SHOP OWNER
Michael Palin


Quote:
A customer enters a pet shop.

Mr. Praline: 'Ello, I wish to register a complaint.

(The owner does not respond.)

Mr. Praline: 'Ello, Miss?

Owner: What do you mean "miss"?

Mr. Praline: I'm sorry, I have a cold. I wish to make a complaint!

Owner: We're closin' for lunch.

Mr. Praline: Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about this parrot what I purchased not half an hour ago from this very boutique.

Owner: Oh yes, the, uh, the Norwegian Blue...What's,uh...What's wrong with it?

Mr. Praline: I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. 'E's dead, that's what's wrong with it!

Owner: No, no, 'e's uh,...he's resting.

Mr. Praline: Look, matey, I know a dead parrot when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.

Owner: No no he's not dead, he's, he's restin'! Remarkable bird, the Norwegian Blue, idn'it, ay? Beautiful plumage!

Mr. Praline: The plumage don't enter into it. It's stone dead.

Owner: Nononono, no, no! 'E's resting!

Mr. Praline: All right then, if he's restin', I'll wake him up! (shouting at the cage) 'Ello, Mister Polly Parrot! I've got a lovely fresh cuttle fish for you if you
show...

(owner hits the cage)

Owner: There, he moved!

Mr. Praline: No, he didn't, that was you hitting the cage!

Owner: I never!!

Mr. Praline: Yes, you did!

Owner: I never, never did anything...

Mr. Praline: (yelling and hitting the cage repeatedly) 'ELLO POLLY!!!!! Testing! Testing! Testing! Testing! This is your nine o'clock alarm call!

(Takes parrot out of the cage and thumps its head on the counter. Throws it up in the air and watches it plummet to the floor.)

Mr. Praline: Now that's what I call a dead parrot.

Owner: No, no.....No, 'e's stunned!

Mr. Praline: STUNNED?!?

Owner: Yeah! You stunned him, just as he was wakin' up! Norwegian Blues stun easily, major.

Mr. Praline: Um...now look...now look, mate, I've definitely 'ad enough of this. That parrot is definitely deceased, and when I purchased it not 'alf an hour
ago, you assured me that its total lack of movement was due to it bein' tired and shagged out following a prolonged squawk.

Owner: Well, he's...he's, ah...probably pining for the fjords.

Mr. Praline: PININ' for the FJORDS?!?!?!? What kind of talk is that?, look, why did he fall flat on his back the moment I got 'im home?

Owner: The Norwegian Blue prefers keepin' on it's back! Remarkable bird, id'nit, squire? Lovely plumage!

Mr. Praline: Look, I took the liberty of examining that parrot when I got it home, and I discovered the only reason that it had been sitting on its perch in the
first place was that it had been NAILED there.

(pause)

Owner: Well, o'course it was nailed there! If I hadn't nailed that bird down, it would have nuzzled up to those bars, bent 'em apart with its beak, and
VOOM! Feeweeweewee!

Mr. Praline: "VOOM"?!? Mate, this bird wouldn't "voom" if you put four million volts through it! 'E's bleedin' demised!

Owner: No no! 'E's pining!

Mr. Praline: 'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e
rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the
bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!

(pause)

Owner: Well, I'd better replace it, then. (he takes a quick peek behind the counter) Sorry squire, I've had a look 'round the back of the shop, and uh,
we're right out of parrots.

Mr. Praline: I see. I see, I get the picture.

Owner: I got a slug.

(pause)

Mr. Praline: Pray, does it talk?

Owner: Nnnnot really.

Mr. Praline: WELL IT'S HARDLY A BLOODY REPLACEMENT, IS IT?!!???!!?

Owner: N-no, I guess not. (gets ashamed, looks at his feet)

Mr. Praline: Well.

(pause)

Owner: (quietly) D'you.... d'you want to come back to my place?

Mr. Praline: (looks around) Yeah, all right, sure.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2004 04:29 pm
farmerman wrote:
shall we agree that this horse has expired sufficiently so that further whuppins will not have any resuscatory effects?


Sounds like a plan...
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Nov, 2004 06:06 am
timber-where do you find those Monty Python transcripts?
I want to find tthat "menu" of
Weve got eggs
eggs bacon and spam
spam eggs and spam
etc...
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Nov, 2004 09:17 am
This thread has evolved into a Monty Python thread. Now that's a wierd mutation Wink
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Nov, 2004 09:29 am
rosborne979 wrote:
This thread has evolved into a Monty Python thread. Now that's a wierd mutation Wink


I don't think that mutation is indicative of disinterest, or that it bespeaks lack of passion on the subject; I think the subject is so volatile that people actually back off out of respect for the potential mess pursuing it could cause - at least that's why I ceased beating old paint.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Nov, 2004 10:03 am
FM, I just googled "Monty Python" +"Dead Parrot" ... came up with a buncha hits, found one that had the skit, and there ya are. Don't recall the site ... it was from googlegroups, I think; an old usenet posting. There's lotsa stuff like that out there, SNL skits, Python skits, Firesign Theater, Cheech and Chong, Smothers Brothers ... all sortsa fossils. Ya just gotta dig for 'em :wink:

Back on topic for a bit of change, I will submit the only defenses available to Creationism and its proponents precisely are the emotional; logic, reason, and cold, critical, analytic objectivity lay bare the intellectual bankruptcy, academic fraud, and patently religionist propaganda which are the sum of the absurdity. Bereft of foundation, the notion claims and enjoys the support only of the superstitious, the uncritical and the emotional. And is they who leap passionately and self-righteously to its defense when it is met with the educated and dispassionate dismissal it merits.

Any are welcome to their faith, whatever that may be. None may be permitted to foist their own faith on others in any manner, particularly and singularly under the the guise of "education". "Evolution" is a scientific theory, "Creationism" is a Judaeo-centric folk myth, and "Intelligent Design" is nothing more nor less than its incestually derived bastard sibling.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Nov, 2004 10:30 am
OH YEAH-and now for something completely different
Quote:
The SPAM Sketch

from The Final Rip Off

Mr. Bun: Morning.

Waitress: Morning.

Mr. Bun: Well, what you got?

Waitress: Well, there's egg and bacon; egg, sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg, bacon and spam; egg, bacon, sausage and spam; spam, bacon, sausage and spam; spam, egg, spam, spam, bacon and spam; spam, sausage, spam, spam, spam, bacon, spam, tomato and spam; spam, spam, spam, egg and spam; (Vikings start singing in background) spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, baked beans, spam, spam, spam and spam.

Vikings: Spam, spam, spam, spam, lovely spam, lovely spam.

Waitress: (cont) or Lobster Thermidor a Crevette with a mornay sauce served in a Provencale manner with shallots and aubergines garnished with truffle pate, brandy and with a fried egg on top and spam.

Mrs. Bun: Have you got anything without spam?

Waitress: Well, there's spam, egg, sausage and spam. That's not got much spam in it.

Mrs. Bun: I don't want any spam!

Mr. Bun: Why can't she have egg, bacon, spam and sausage?

Mrs. Bun: That's got spam in it.

Mr. Bun: It hasn't got as much spam in it as spam, egg, sausage and spam has it?

Mrs. Bun: (over Vikings starting again) Could you do me egg, bacon, spam and sausage without the spam then?

Waitress: Ech!

Mrs. Bun: What do you mean ech! I don't like spam!

Vikings: Lovely spam, wonderful spam....etc

Waitress: Shut up! Shut up! Shut up! Bloody vikings. You can't have egg, bacon, spam and sausage without the spam.

Mrs. Bun: I don't like spam!

Mr. Bun: Shh dear, don't cause a fuss. I'll have your spam. I love it. I'm having spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, baked beans, spam, spam, spam and spam. (starts Vikings off again)

Vikings: Lovely spam, wonderful spam...etc

Waitress: Shut up! Baked beans are off.

Mr. Bun: Well, can I have her spam instead of the baked beans?

Waitress: You mean spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, and spam?

Vikings: Lovely spam, wonderful spam...etc...spam, spam, spam! (in harmony)



such sophisticated rich humor
0 Replies
 
Mr Stillwater
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Nov, 2004 07:57 pm
It's very Pythonesque really......

Invisible Sky Being chock-full of love creates entire Universe in working week, complete with all known species of animals and two humans. Two humans tick it off - they get sent off into the wilderness.

Few years later, ISB (still fulla love, etc) decides TO KILL EVERYTHING IN CREATION. Everything. Even all the creatures that haven't done anything remotely bad.

ISB finds righteous fellow who readily agrees to construct vessel, happy in the knowledge that everyone else will die. No questions asked.

Total destruction of all life except vessel and occupants. That includes all the animal species that are incapable of evil deeds, infants and unborn babies in the womb, presumably also incapable of evil deeds. ISB congratulates self on job well done. Drains Flood through the Grand Canyon, creates coal deposits and fossils. Sticks rainbow in sky.

Survivors marvel at the love ISB shows to all living things.


Question: What kind of muddled, hateful philosophy is that? Can't really find many values there for the kids, except 'your'e expendable'.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Nov, 2004 10:19 pm
So - you got a complaint like, then, Stilly?

About god?
0 Replies
 
 

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