Weeping and gnashing of teeth

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041111/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/bush_inauguration

White House - AP Cabinet & State

Pageantry Planned for Bush Inauguration

1 hour, 37 minutes ago White House - AP Cabinet & State

By EILEEN PUTMAN, Associated Press Writer

Quote:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&ncid=1312&e=3&u=/nm/20041111/pl_nm/mideast_bush_dc_7

Bush Calls Arafat Death 'Significant Moment'

2 hours, 1 minute ago Politics - Reuters

By Adam Entous

Quote:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Bush (news - web sites) expressed American condolences late on Wednesday for the death of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat (news - web sites) and called it "a significant moment" for the Palestinians in their bid for peace and an independent state.

"The death of Yasser Arafat is a significant moment in Palestinians' history," Bush said in a statement. "We hope that the future will bring peace and the fulfillment of the aspirations for an independent democratic Palestine that is at peace with its neighbors."

"During the period of transition that is ahead, we urge all in the region and throughout the world to join in helping to make progress toward these goals and toward the ultimate goal of peace," Bush said in extending condolences to the Palestinian people.

Bush is expected to send a senior American diplomat, Assistant Secretary of State Williams Burns, and possibly others, to Arafat's funeral, sources said.

Earlier on Wednesday before the announcement of Arafat's death, Bush said he saw an opening for negotiating peace with a new Palestinian leadership, declaring: "I think we've got a chance."

Bush, who sidelined the long-time Palestinian leader as an obstacle to peace in the Middle East, said his administration may be prepared to offer assistance to shore up Palestinian institutions, though he offered no details.

"There will be an opening for peace when leadership of the Palestinian people steps forward and says 'Help us build a democratic and free society'," Bush told reporters during a meeting with NATO (news - web sites) Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer.

"When that happens -- and I believe it's going to happen because I believe all people desire to live in freedom -- the United States of America will be more than willing to help build the institutions necessary for a free society to emerge so that the Palestinians can have their own state," Bush said.

"I think we've got a chance to do that, and I look forward to being involved in that process," he added.

Asked if a new Palestinian leadership would create an opening for peace, Bush said: "I do."

Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) said U.S. help would depend on whether new Palestinian leadership emerges to rein in terrorism.

U.S. officials said consultations were also under way with European allies on a renewed peace effort.

Powell said "it remains to be seen" whether new Palestinian leaders will be able to take charge and take on the terrorists. If that happens, "we stand ready to work with them," he added.

Sources said the Bush administration has been discussing with European officials whether they can help organize elections, which would be held 60 days after Arafat's death under Palestinian law.

Bush has promised to revive a U.S.-backed peace plan known as the road map. That is expected to be the focus of talks later this week with British Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites), who has been prodding his American ally to make the Middle East peace process a higher priority.

In a sign that diplomacy may be rallying, a U.S. official said Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom was expected to meet Powell in Washington early next week.

Officials said it was too early to say how the United States would assist the Palestinians.

One option under consideration would provide American direct aid to shore up cash-strapped institutions and improve basic services, according to U.S. and diplomatic sources. (Additional reporting by Arshad Mohammed)

My comments on the articles.

About the pageantry, I don't know if President Bush resembles hitler or the late King George, but in any event, it is in my opinion to have big bash while Iraqis and our troops are dying right at this very moment a bit tasteless.

About the Presidents comments about Arafat, the guys sure is a mount of sentimentality and taste.

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Quote:

But what have you been getting at? That it's absurd for Kerry supporters to be upset?

Keep in mind that many of us were not just hoping for a Kerry win in a vague way but working very hard to try to make it happen. I'm not seeking therapy but I truly understand how it is possible, and don't find it absurd.

I don't see what is accomplished by calling those who are upset absurd.

Agree with soz. I also don't see the kind of enmity timber speaks of -- at least not here. One or two comments by the usual suspects, maybe. But take a look, timber, at the gloating thread. http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=37997&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=90

Like deb said, enmity is a two way street, and you've been driving on it since Tuesday, timber.

Got anymore of those pictures of babies crying you can post?

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FreeDuck, quoting Soz, wrote:

Quote:
But what have you been getting at? That it's absurd for Kerry supporters to be upset?

Keep in mind that many of us were not just hoping for a Kerry win in a vague way but working very hard to try to make it happen. I'm not seeking therapy but I truly understand how it is possible, and don't find it absurd.

I don't see what is accomplished by calling those who are upset absurd.

Agree with soz. I also don't see the kind of enmity timber speaks of -- at least not here. One or two comments by the usual suspects, maybe. But take a look, timber, at the gloating thread. http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=37997&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=90

Like deb said, enmity is a two way street, and you've been driving on it since Tuesday, timber.

Got anymore of those pictures of babies crying you can post?

I dunno. First, I have never, as Soz implied, called " ... those who are upset absurd." My point has been the absurd over-reaction some have displayed pursuant to the election results. On this thread in specific, I note a good bit of enmity has been directed my way, though - and in this perhaps my vision is limited by my perspective - I don't see that I've directed enmity toward anyone. Again, mebbe I'm wrong, mebbe its there and I just don't see it. Mebbe somebody can pop up relevant links ... I'm always willing to be shown an error.

On a couple other threads - notably that election fraud thread, the discussion of replacing GWB, and the gloating thread, and mebbe the Kerry concession thread, I did a bit of gloating, yeah, some of which I acknowledged might have been unduly ebulient, and on those and other threads I did a lot more presentation of counterargument to propositions or assertions with which I disagreed. Dunno how that can be seen as " ... been driving on it since Tuesday".

Like I said ... mebbe I'm wrong.

Mebbe folks are mad just 'cause I'm not among the disappointed and I'm highly noticeable. Seems sorta like that to me. Note please and note well I'm not sayin' "Why's everybody pickin' on me?" ... I don't feel thats the case at all.

Anyhow, if anyone cares to open a thread exploring the question "Is timber a meanie?" I'll be happy to show up there. If anyone cares to respond here, well, OK ... but lets keep the digression short and focussed on its particular point, and not totally derail this thread. I'm open to takin' the issue to PMs, too, if anyone cares to go that way.

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Timber, I ASKED what you were getting at, as you've uttered a series of gnomic pronouncements that are hard to decipher and I DIDN'T want to assume.

You now say, "My point has been the absurd over-reaction some have displayed pursuant to the election results." So yes, you're saying there is an absurd over-reaction.

From whom? Those going to therapy? Or people here?

If people here, who?

If you're talking about FreeDuck and dlowan and myself, we're not gonna like it, and I don't see how that could be surprising to you.

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You are more than among the not disappointed Timber - you are amongst those displaying contempt and real nastiness - and repeatedly so. Craven called you on it once, and I hoped you had come more to yourself - but seemingly not.

I expect that from the usual trolls, (on both sides) and, apart from calling them on it sometimes, merely think, "Think of the source" and move on - though I find it sort of disturbingly repulsive.

When people like you display this rather childish nastiness, well, it grates.

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Not aimin' at anyone here, Soz ... nor even at "Those going to therapy" in any direct particular. I tossed that out there merely as an observation ... without commentary ... of absurdity.

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Not sure that this is a digression in a "weeping and gnashing of teeth" thread!

But I do feel like I am picking on you - so I will shut up.

I think the reason you are copping it is in my above post. That is, this sort of thing is not what I expect - and it strikes a really jarring note. Lots of the usual suspects are prominent, too - but, as I said, one passes by - sickened, but not surprised.

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timberlandko wrote:

Not aimin' at anyone here, Soz ... nor even at "Those going to therapy" in any direct particular. I tossed that out there merely as an observation ... without commentary ... of absurdity.

So, you were observing, without commentary, absurdity... not that it's actually absurd? :-? If the therapy-going people aren't absurd, and we aren't absurd, what IS?

Anyway, as long as you're backing away from the gnomic pronouncements and don't-quote-me-on-that implications, I'm ready to move on.

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it's been my exprience here, that timber is one of the moderate voices of the republican side.

after all, he did stand up for a newbie that was gettin' spanked seven ways from sunday by some on the bush victory thread.

if he wants to hoot a little that jawge dubya got the job, well those of us on the other side of the election have to ask ourselves if we would really be as graciously subdued about a kerry win as we'd like to think. i tend to think i'd hoot. probably quite a bit.

here's one of the things that i have learned from this election;

those of us in america who are tired of the vicious condemnations, accusations and plain devisiveness that's been fostered by extremists of both major parties over the last ten years, those of us who really do value the american way of life over party and religious rhetoric, those of us who really do want america to continue to be the best, the most free, the most forward thinking...

we are going to have to do it ourselves.

our leaders have proven time and time again that they are unwilling to do so. they may pronounce the word "healing" to each other, but it is with tongue in cheek and fingers crossed behind their backs. both parties have too much to lose by maintaining "one nation, indivisible".

that doesn't mean that there won't be disagreements. there are as many opinions as there are people.

perhaps we could start with something easy. like say, umm.. critiquing the idea, not the person?

okay. enough of that. GROUP HUG!!!!!!

:wink:

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I agree that timber is not the worst gloater on campus. Maybe that's why we're able to talk about it with him. Consider yourselves hugged.

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FreeDuck wrote:

Consider yourselves hugged.

thanx free d. i feel warm and safe now... Laughing

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That's an interesting line of thought, wondering how we would react if Kerry won. Gosh, everything would be different. I am not so sure I would gloat, believe it or not. Not because I didn't want him to win but because it seemed like such a long election and a bitter one that I think I would have been feeling almost the same as I did when Bush won. Weird. Really what would he have changed?

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Even Republicans can go for hugs

http://www.able2know.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10156/PH-637.jpg

And hey, folks ... I wanna reaffirm that I don't feel "Picked On" a bit ... after all, its just electrons and pixels, and it generally isn't long before any given post is rendered into the relative obscurity of the back pages of a thread. Anybody wants to let off some steam - over anything, just about, feel free to puff it my way, insteada takin' a chance on scaldin' somebody not wearin' flame-proof feathers or whose skin isn't elephant-thick. Bear in mind, though ... I've got a sturdy beak and some pretty sharp talons, and I ain't afraid ta use 'em. :wink: Laughing

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That's a lovely elephant there timber, but who is the huge beast sitting beside her?

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It's not Ralph Nader, is it?

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i thought it was an embodiment of the pierre trudeau classic

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Aw, we love ya timber. Just lay off those pictures of babies crying and whatnot, k? At least when you're among the more civilized members.

I think if Kerry had won, I would have been relieved. I actually like most of the conservatives on this board so I think I would have been mindful of rubbing salt in wounds. But I might have danced a jig in the privacy of my own home.

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Which is the place for it, wee pinguid, no???

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Absolutely, wee bunny!

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cavfancier wrote:

It's not Ralph Nader, is it?

naw, cav... nader's the elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about.

aw har har har... oh brother. sometimes i just kill me.

okay. i'll stop now.

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Weeping and gnashing of teeth

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