11
   

Let's admit the obvious: Afghanistan War is unwinnable

 
 
Reply Sun 26 Mar, 2017 02:43 pm
Quote:
The Afghanistan War is unwinnable. Partnered with a corrupt and ineffective Afghan government, U.S. forces confront a robust and growing insurgency, substantively funded by skimmed American contracts. After 15 years of dysfunctional U.S. development schemes costing over $100 billion, Afghans remain near the bottom of most human development indices.

Beyond the counterinsurgency failures, many Afghans remain resistant to ideas imposed by foreigners. One Kentucky sergeant, frustrated by his team's failed development mission, drawled to me, "The Afghans ain't buyin' what we're sellin'."

There is no good way forward. The systemic failure of the 21st-century American way of war and development cannot easily be reformed. The many entrenched beneficiaries, both Afghan and American, have perverse incentives to continue the futile war. "It's the perfect war," one intelligence officer told me. "Everyone is making money.

Doing more of the same won't yield a different outcome.


More at The Hill

Rather than taking money away from needed social programs which help the poor and the elderly, why don't we save millions of future debt and finally get out of Afghanistan. I mean, if not now, when? What will change, are we going to be there forever?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 11 • Views: 2,820 • Replies: 68

 
Krumple
 
  0  
Reply Sun 26 Mar, 2017 03:13 pm
@revelette1,
The part about it is the political leaders and defense contractors have made a racket of funneling tax money into their pockets. They wouldn't wanna give that up over ethicacy. It seems like a write off argument and people are tired of hearing it but it's totally the case.
revelette1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Mar, 2017 06:06 pm
@Krumple,
I bet if we (the US) were still living under the draft, people wouldn't be tired of talking about it. I mean, we should have to see all the destruction we do at all these places like they did during Vietnam.
Krumple
 
  0  
Reply Sun 26 Mar, 2017 06:58 pm
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:

I bet if we (the US) were still living under the draft, people wouldn't be tired of talking about it. I mean, we should have to see all the destruction we do at all these places like they did during Vietnam.


You have a point that it would be discussed a lot more but should it really come down to personal objections to "do your part" before the issue gets properly addressed?

I doubt the US would ever reimplement a draft. Today's youth of the average 18 year olds are out of shape over weight and if they needed to run ten feet it would kill them.

Defense contractors don't want a draft. Their slogan is they are there so the soldiers can focus on what they do best, killing foreigners.

The defense contractors don't want a "win" because that means the paychecks stop. Which is why they stall any effort to make a clean quick mop up victory.

Honestly think about it. Are our generals really that inept to require twenty years to resolve a conflict? No, I bet they could have finished everything already, but war has turned into a huge money making scam for defense corporations.
revelette1
 
  2  
Reply Sun 26 Mar, 2017 08:10 pm
@Krumple,
Well, I don't believe mopping up would be a good idea. It seems to me, for every so called terrorist and/or Taliban captured or killed, more innocents gets killed. The cost of lives outweigh the any benefits and it seems as though they don't want our help in rebuilding, so we should get out and let the contractors find a job in the US building bridges or roads.
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  3  
Reply Sun 26 Mar, 2017 11:19 pm
The war in Afghanistan is unwinnable.
I guess the Russians could have told us that. They got sick of it and finally left. Of course we helped the mujahideem with weapons and money etc., which they later used against us .
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2017 03:36 am
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:
why don't we save millions of future debt and finally get out of Afghanistan.

http://hss-prod.hss.aol.com/hss/storage/midas/f91bdb53a50fd4fe1d97fe0cc32e3681/201438666/2438388.jpg

Any other questions?
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2017 03:46 am
@revelette1,
A propper economy and education take time but are not impossible. Winning the war against countries like Afaganistan requires both. And yes these things may take a generation or two and a lot of diplomacy and patience not bashing.
hightor
 
  6  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2017 05:22 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
Any other questions?


Yeah. How many Afghanis took part in the Sept 2001 terror attacks on the WTC and Pentagon?
revelette1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2017 12:11 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
I would wholeheartedly agree except that they don't want the US there helping them rebuild their country. I think we should get out, other than maybe a small unit of real (not contractors)army intelligence people there to keep an eye on things.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2017 09:37 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
Yeah. How many Afghanis took part in the Sept 2001 terror attacks on the WTC and Pentagon?

Shame on you. You know very well that 9/11 was carried out by the then-government of Afghanistan.

What is it with liberals that they always try to make excuses for terrorists?
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 27 Mar, 2017 09:38 pm
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:
I would wholeheartedly agree except that they don't want the US there helping them rebuild their country. I think we should get out, other than maybe a small unit of real (not contractors)army intelligence people there to keep an eye on things.

I don't care if we stop rebuilding. But we'll need to do more than merely keep an eye on things. We also need to keep on killing people whose existence we object to.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  5  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2017 02:26 am
@oralloy,
There was no functioning government, just warring factions. Al Qaida was not the "government" in Afghanistan nor did Afghan nationals participate in the attacks. Allowing bin Laden to escape and committing ourselves to pursuing an unwinnable and expensive war was a blunder. It was a mistake.
oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2017 03:04 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
There was no functioning government, just warring factions.

The Taliban was the government of Afghanistan.


hightor wrote:
Al Qaida was not the "government" in Afghanistan

They are closely tied to the Taliban.


hightor wrote:
Allowing bin Laden to escape and committing ourselves to pursuing an unwinnable and expensive war was a blunder. It was a mistake.

We managed to get bin Laden. The war is neither unwinnable nor expensive.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2017 03:20 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
There was no functioning government, just warring factions. Al Qaida was not the "government" in Afghanistan nor did Afghan nationals participate in the attacks. Allowing bin Laden to escape and committing ourselves to pursuing an unwinnable and expensive war was a blunder. It was a mistake.

At the time of 9/11, Bin Laden had his headquarters in Afghanistan, whose Taliban government sponsored him and refused to turn him over after 9/11 when the US repeatedly requested it, remember? Most of the people in the world have always thought that if someone attacks you in your cities and murders thousands of your citizens, you have the right to strike back, or were you sick that day in school?
hightor
 
  6  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2017 03:41 am
@Brandon9000,
The operation was financed by bin Laden and al Qaida. We had every right to track him down and break up his criminal network. We had no reason to sign on to a fifteen year campaign of nation building and ineffective warfare against militant tribes who are no longer in any way remotely responsible for the attacks in 2001.
revelette1
 
  3  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2017 06:32 am
@hightor,
The reason I think it is time to get out is clearly the situation is going to remain the same unless we take to just "shock and awe" killing large amounts of people of which I doubt would solve the objective and would be horrible. Twenty years from now, we would still have to same problems of leaving a "vacuum for terrorist to thrive" We went to Afghanistan to get Bin Laden, well, he is dead. The reason no longer exist to stay.

And war is expensive, money we could be spending in our own country rather than taking away needed programs for the poor and the elderly, money to fix our nations infrastructure which badly need it. So far all together from 2001-2017 we have spent or in debt 2,016.5 billion dollars. But that includes Iraq and other military spending on "terror."

the balance/War on terror facts-timeline

oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2017 12:35 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
The operation was financed by bin Laden and al Qaida. We had every right to track him down and break up his criminal network. We had no reason to sign on to a fifteen year campaign of nation building and ineffective warfare against militant tribes who are no longer in any way remotely responsible for the attacks in 2001.

If you want to halt nation building, fine. But the DroneStrikes are anything but ineffective. And the Taliban will restore Afghanistan to a terrorist haven if we allow them to.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 28 Mar, 2017 12:36 pm
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:
The reason I think it is time to get out is clearly the situation is going to remain the same unless we take to just "shock and awe" killing large amounts of people of which I doubt would solve the objective and would be horrible.

The very essence of the Shock and Awe plan was to avoid civilian casualties. And I don't think there are enough targets in Afghanistan to warrant such an attack.


revelette1 wrote:
Twenty years from now, we would still have to same problems of leaving a "vacuum for terrorist to thrive" We went to Afghanistan to get Bin Laden, well, he is dead. The reason no longer exist to stay.

The core of al-Qa'ida still exists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayman_al-Zawahiri
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_Ahmed_Abdullah
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saif_al-Adel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Sayyid_Muhamed_Mustafa_al-Bakri

But good news: I see Trump nailed Zaid Khayr:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Khayr_al-Masri

Why wasn't this in the news? Wow!

And it looks like Saif and AAA are in Syria too. If Trump can nail them with his expanded drone strikes, we'll have gutted al-Qa'ida of their major operatives.


revelette1 wrote:
And war is expensive, money we could be spending in our own country rather than taking away needed programs for the poor and the elderly, money to fix our nations infrastructure which badly need it.

This is exactly what is wrong with the Left. They are always trying to undermine national security.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 29 Mar, 2017 11:08 am
@hightor,
Quote:
There was no functioning government, just warring factions. Al Qaida was not the "government" in Afghanistan nor did Afghan nationals participate in the attacks. Allowing bin Laden to escape and committing ourselves to pursuing an unwinnable and expensive war was a blunder. It was a mistake.


Did you forget all about the Taliban? They were the leaders of Afghanistan, they might not have been recognized by the world as the leaders of Afghanistan, but they were the leaders none the less. They allowed bin Laden and his people to live and train for 9-11 in their country, they had their blessing. The Taliban were horrible leaders, do you not remember the video's of men dancing in the streets and cutting off their beards? How about the women who were allowed to walk around without a veil on or attend school. Except for some northern portions of Afghanistan, the Taliban ruled the country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Emirate_of_Afghanistan
 

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