If Kerry Becomes President.....

mysteryman wrote:

All of you claiming that Kerry was invited to speak with the North Vietnamese in Paris are forgetting one thing.
IT IS AGAINST THE LAW FOR A COMMISSIONED MILITARY OFFICER TO MEET WITH THE ENEMY,ANYWHERE,AT ANY TIME.

Here is the actual Kerry quote,along with the Federal law he violated.
"I have been to Paris. I have talked with both delegations at the peace talks, that is to say the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the Provisional Revolutionary Government and of all eight of Madam Binh's points it has been stated time and time again, and was stated by Senator Vance Hartke when he returned from Paris, and it has been stated by many other officials of this Government, if the United States were to set a date for withdrawal the prisoners of war would be returned.

I think this negates very clearly the argument of the President that we have to maintain a presence in Vietnam, to use as a negotiating block for the return of those prisoners. The setting of a date will accomplish that.

-- John Kerry, testifying before the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, April 22, 1971

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Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

-- U.S. Code, Title 18, Part I, Chapter 45, Section 953: Private correspondence with foreign governments

Show me where it says he was invited.

The protestors only help prolong the war in Vietnam. General Vo Nguyen Giap even said in his own book that the NVA was ready to give up until they heard about the protests in the US. Vo Nguyen Giap said that if they could hold on longer that the will of the US govt would be broken by it's own people.

I will provide as much support for Kerry as the libs on this board have shown for Bush. I guess that would be a big fat 0. It doesn't help me either seeing as how I'm in the military and won't have much choice but to salute a traitor to the US military. Trust me, I won't be saluting the man but his office. If Kerry gets a second term, you can bet ass that I will not reenlist in the Army because all he will do is cut funding for weapons and pay just like every other Democrat has in the last 30 years. The military will no longer by a good place to be.

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Excuse me, Baldimo, but if you ARE a commissioned service person of whatever ilk, then calling President Kerry a traitor is wrong and you know it. But thanks for noticing that he will be running for a second term. Wink

Part of the problem with what you may see as "the attitude of the liberals" on this board, is you didn't know us when Bush was first elected. This forum started at about the time of the mid-point of Bush's term.

<shrug> I gave Bush a chance and sadly saw what he did. I believed what he said when he was inaugurated. If as he says, he had been a "uniter," then he lost his touch. I think we can all agree there is little unity here. We are no longer "united." At that, Bush has been a dysmal failure. And the reason why is the same as why the rest of the world has grown to feel so totally alienated from the United States. Arrogance, greed and self-interest don't make for good friendships.

My worry is that the partisan hatred will be maintained, just as you say you plan. If you neo-conservatives could only see that Kerry is far closer to the Republicans your fathers knew and loved, you'd be more willing to wait to pass judgement.

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Re: If Kerry Becomes President.....

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

will you patriotic republicans put aside your partisan feelings and disappointments and stand 100% squarely behind our new leader in this important time in our history

Every other election I've ever seen going back to Truman vs Dewey, either man could win and the country would still be there four years hence.

I truly wish I could tell anybody I believed that to be the case with this election as well. My honest opinion is that a Kerry presidency would be the sort of disaster which nations do not survive or recover from.

I would anticipate some sort of a crisis of government arising within the first six months of a Kerry presidency which was basically insoluble and which would likely involve the military. Simplest possible case, the military might either go on strike or simple resign en masse, basically telling the American citizenry to defend themselves.

Under such circumstances, I'd support the idea of splitting the country up into two or three pieces; most likely a northeastern nation consisting of the East coast from NY up, a SouthWest country consisting mainly of California and Oregon, and then the rest of the country to include Washington State also so as not to be landlocked on the Pacific Ocean.

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Yeah, a lot of people would have to move, but the Pakistanis all managed it...

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Gungasnake, you are kidding, right?

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gungasnake...I'm sure you're a wonderful person who is kind to his mother so please don't take it personally when I say these last two posts of yours were about the most tripe I've read on these threads period and I've been here a good long while.....

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Now I really have seen it all.

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GungaSnake -- You don't tell us your location but from the way you're breaking up the states I have a good idea you're not from Washington state. Very Happy

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A change in leadership is always a time their enemies test them. No matter who--which party...

Khruschev gave Kennedy Hell.

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kickycan wrote:

Gungasnake, you are kidding, right?

One thing people should start doing to make moving easier in future time is getting rid of unnecessary paper and books. Books are made of trees and retain the same basic weight/volume ratio. CD disks are much lighter. A CD disk weights a fraction of an ounce and holds 640 MB of data. By way of contrast, the bible is about four and a half MB, War and Peace (in English) is about 3.7 MB, and all of Shakespeare's plays and sonnets are around 6.5.

Virtually all literature which anybody has any reason to view as classic is available totally free at the Gutenberg project:

http://promo.net/pg/

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gungasnake come clean...you live in a cabin in either Montana or Wyoming, right? :wink: Laughing

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Piffka wrote:

GungaSnake -- You don't tell us your location but from the way you're breaking up the states I have a good idea you're not from Washington state.

The libs in Wash. state would have to move. One possibility: heave an equal number of illegals from California back over the Mexican border and allow the Wash staters to assume their places in the Crips, Bloods, and various similar social organizations...

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Re: If Kerry Becomes President.....

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
will you patriotic republicans put aside your partisan feelings and disappointments and stand 100% squarely behind our new leader in this important time in our history

Should Kerry win next week, or next month or next year - however long it takes to declare a winner, I can safely predict that I will not stand 100% squarely behind him.

I don't stand 100% squarely behind George Bush and I don't think anyone, necessarily, should.

What I can predict is that I will not criticize his every word and every decision simply because he is a Democrat who beat a Republican.

When I do criticize him, I will not resort to vicious hyperbolic attacks or advance absurd conspiracy theories.

I will judge his presidency based on the quality of his decisions and not his party affiliation or the general idiocy of the fools who voted him in. :wink:

I will wear the badge of fool like the Sox and their fans wear the badge of idiot......

As a Yankee fan, I also have very little use for the Red Sox and their fans.

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good thing none of them care.... :wink:

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Aaah, finally a post by Finn that I can agree with completely.

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Piffka wrote:

Excuse me, Baldimo, but if you ARE a commissioned service person of whatever ilk, then calling President Kerry a traitor is wrong and you know it. But thanks for noticing that he will be running for a second term.

I'm not commissioned I'm enlisted. If I was commissioned and Kerry was elected I would resign my commission and quit the military. :wink: There is nothing that says I have to respect the man, just the office.

As for Kerry getting a second term, he has to get a first term and I don't think that will happen.

Quote:

Part of the problem with what you may see as "the attitude of the liberals" on this board, is you didn't know us when Bush was first elected. This forum started at about the time of the mid-point of Bush's term.

<shrug> I gave Bush a chance and sadly saw what he did. I believed what he said when he was inaugurated. If as he says, he had been a "uniter," then he lost his touch. I think we can all agree there is little unity here. We are no longer "united." At that, Bush has been a dysmal failure. And the reason why is the same as why the rest of the world has grown to feel so totally alienated from the United States. Arrogance, greed and self-interest don't make for good friendships.

I do find that hard to believe. The way people talk about the election in 2000 I see everyone granting him no respect due to the fact that none of you think he was elected in the first place. I will give you the benefit of the doubt in this case.

Quote:

My worry is that the partisan hatred will be maintained, just as you say you plan. If you neo-conservatives could only see that Kerry is far closer to the Republicans your fathers knew and loved, you'd be more willing to wait to pass judgement.

I don't know whom my father liked back then, we weren't a political family, and I'm the first in my family to be openly political. Kerry is nothing compared to the Rep's of the 70's and 80's. Kerry didn't like Reagan and did everything he could to be against Reagan. TO see him now talk about Reagan so fondly reeks of politics. He isn't a confronter of threats he is a bargainer. Dems would rather try and talk then act and talk only gets people killed.

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whew, not a good sign. seems only one side wishes to have legitimacy. That could pose some transition adjida.

I think that, on the time of the Bush selection, most of us were willing to allow a honeymoon. Even at the start of the Iraq war, most of us were supporters , based on data that we believed was true.
I became doubtful when , working in the DOE field, we saw no evidence of atmospheric borne isotopes that are coincident with creating red boy or yellow cake, no isotopes from UF6, and no isotopes from enrichment. It turned out that intelligence analysts were keeping their mouths shut about all the WMD stuff, but the administration was cooking their data. NOW, many intel analysts are coming forward.
AND, as a result, many of us former dull witted followers are now unforgiving Bush critics.
The entire cabinet and the president lied and they must be made accountable. Losing the election is only a start.

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Baldimo wrote:

[Dems would rather try and talk then act and talk only gets people killed.

Unless the threat were verifiably imminent, it would be a GOOD thing to "try and talk then act".

With all due respect to the strength of America, we do not have the funds or the forces to win the war on terror alone. It will be a long, difficult war to be "fought" over decades in almost every country. We need allies; we need to work overtly and covertly with them. There is definitely a PRACTICAL VALUE to diplomacy. We also need to shape a more balanced foreign policy re Muslim/Arab countries, so that moderate Muslims will not be drawn in by the extremists.

Your statement "talk only gets people killed" is so absurd as to suggest that your tongue might be planted in your cheek. But I'll respond as if you actually meant that. Are people not getting killed right now in Iraq?

Moderate people can usually find at least some common ground through dialogue. Moderate people believe it's at least worth a try. Seeking compromise when possible should be a mandated pre-requisite before sending young people off to die.

It is only extremists, absolutists, and utter fools who believe rigid ideology trumps human life.

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angie wrote:

It is only extremists, absolutists, and utter fools who believe rigid ideology trumps human life.

Oh, diplomacy is fine with dealing with the moderates. Problem is that it is utter folly to think that one can negotiate with terrorists.

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farmerman wrote:

AND, as a result, many of us former dull witted followers are now unforgiving Bush critics. The entire cabinet and the president lied and they must be made accountable. Losing the election is only a start.

As I have stated many time here on A2K, I voted for Bush the first time around. Believed he was a "uniter not a divider", believed he was a "moderate", believed he was not in favor of "nation building", believed ha WAS in favor of funding education , etc. Basically, I bought the campaign package. (Had I read Molly Ivans' book "Bushwacked" which documents his disastrous reign in Texas, I would have known better.)

So, to repeat what Farmerman said, "many of us former dull witted followers are now unforgiving Bush critics". Please put me right at the top of that list.

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If Kerry Becomes President.....

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