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The Physics of 911

 
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2017 09:24 am
What about the Psychics of 9/11?

why no discussion of them?

enquiring minds want to know
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2017 09:52 am
@djjd62,
djjd62 wrote:

What about the Psychics of 9/11?

why no discussion of them?

enquiring minds want to know

We discuss with 9/11 psychos here, though I am pretty sure some of them are psychics as well.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2017 10:36 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
It's common knowledge that a normal wood or charcoal fire can melt iron

Well yeah, it's common knowledge that if you want to create molten metal or melt big pieces of steel, all you have to do is crush up some office furnishings and set it on fire, mix it in with a lot of pulverized concrete and cement dust, then throw in some big pieces of steel, and then compress the hell out of it all, and soon you'll have pools of molten metal and melted steel. Sure.

There are people who did their own experiments to find out about creating molten metal and melted steel.

Check it out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YuDKUCALtU

Now let's get to that physics-defying collapse in which all of the intact core structure below the impact zone offered no resistance to speak of.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2017 10:59 am
@Glennn,
Hi Glenn. Your lies about what I am saying are not worth my time, but do you believe, like cam and builder here, that the rubble fire was flooded with water, and was therefore burning UNDER WATER?

You did insist at some point about the vast amounts of water allegedly pored onto the site, but back then you hadn't admitted to the presence of a fire within the rubble, so I didn't think of asking. Now you have admitted to the presence of a fire in the rubble. So either the place was not flooded at all, or this fire burnt under water for 3 months without the water boiling into vapor at any point... How come?
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2017 06:08 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Your lies about what I am saying are not worth my time

They are not lies. You believe that fires in the rubble created an environment in which steel was melted. That means that you are of the opinion that the experiment you saw in the video I provided would create steel-melting heat. Of course, in the experiment you watched in that video, the fire went on for much, much longer than the WTC fire. Maybe you should check it out again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YuDKUCALtU
Quote:
You did insist at some point about the vast amounts of water allegedly pored onto the site

Allegedly? Here, check out page eight on the PDF link below. You'll find that your lack of research on this issue has left you ignorant of the fact that there was a lot of water from several sources.

https://e-reports-ext.llnl.gov/pdf/241096.pdf
Quote:
but back then you hadn't admitted to the presence of a fire within the rubble

Then you weren't paying attention back then. I have never denied the presence of fire in the rubble.
Quote:
this fire burnt under water for 3 months without the water boiling into vapor at any point

Well we know--thanks to me--that there was lots of water in the basement. And we know--thanks to eye witnesses--that there were pools of molten metal and melted steel girders both in the rubble and in the basement areas. And your point is that there should have been some steam as a result. Check out the video below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmMLDG87Sak

Now tell me why you believe that there's red and orange-hot steel being pulled up from just under the top of the rubble pile that they know will create too much steam to see if hit with water, but that there's not pools of molten metal and melted steel girders as many people have testified to seeing. Or if you acknowledge that there were pools of molten metal and melted steel girders, and you've been shown in no uncertain terms that there was definitely lots of water there, what makes you think that there was no steam?

Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2017 06:34 pm
@Olivier5,
Maybe now you can explain how those physics-defying collapses were completely normal.
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Mar, 2017 12:02 am
@Glennn,
Oh, he's not even slightly interested in facts, Glenn.

Simply here to muddy the waters of those genuinely interested in factual research.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Mar, 2017 12:59 am
@djjd62,
Quote:

What about the Psychics of 9/11?

why no discussion of them?


There's more than a few here already. Did you have a special request?
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Mar, 2017 01:24 am
@Glennn,
You seem to have difficulties understanding the idea of an ENCLOSED fire, as opposed to an open fire. Call the guys in your video and tell them to build walls around their fire, and below, and above. Just let enough openings for air to get it. Then it will melt iron... It's the accumulation of heat in a closed environment that does the trick.

The ground zero rubble fire was NOT flooded. Let's be rational for once. There might have been a meter or two of stagnating water at the bottom of the pile, but the fire was burning above that flooded level.

Remember that the pile reached much higher than street level. It could not have retained water above street level, the water would have flooded the streets... Nobody reported that lower Manhattan was flooded for months.

There was a fire, and it was NOT happening under water. That much is absolutely certain.

Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Mar, 2017 01:25 am
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:

Maybe now you can explain how those physics-defying collapses were completely normal.

If water can defy the laws of thermodynamic and not boil at 1500 C, anything can happen... Pigs can fly, the moon is made of cheese and you can understand one of my post.
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Mar, 2017 02:00 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
You seem to have difficulties understanding the idea of an ENCLOSED fire, as opposed to an open fire.


And you seem to have difficulties remembering what you said already here on this topic. There's a vast difference between a fan-forced forge, and a rubble pile coated in sodden ash.

A huge open fire occurred at ground zero on day two of the cleanup. And then a storm settled the dust, turning it into a thick grey sludge.

I'm not at all surprised that you're uninformed about the details, though.

http://esq.h-cdn.co/assets/16/36/980x643/gallery-1473438962-esq-9-11-stories-september-2002-gettyimages-97272702.jpg
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Mar, 2017 07:14 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Call the guys in your video and tell them to build walls around their fire, and below, and above.

The guys in the video? There was only one guy in the video! This tells me that you did not watch the video. Also, he let the steel beam burn for twenty-four hours while encased in drywall and wrapped in wire after putting crushed gypsum, aluminum scraps, crushed concrete, steel scraps, diesel fuel, and plastic inside the casing with the beam. In the end, the beam was still wrapped in wire, and was undamaged. You seem to believe that if the guy would have put the burning setup in a hole and then dumped a bunch of cement dust in the hole to encase the beam even further, it would have melted. Really?

On a related point, you still haven't explained how the fire in the upper floors of the North Tower made its way down through all the pulverized, compressed cement dust and created pools of molten metal and melted steel girders. The Tower was not engulfed in flames below the impact zone. So what caused all the heat that created molten metals and melted steel girders?
Quote:
There might have been a meter or two of stagnating water at the bottom of the pile, but the fire was burning above that flooded level.
Quote:
The ground zero rubble fire was NOT flooded.

From the link I provided you:

It was determined that 3 million gallons of water were hosed on site in the fire-fighting efforts between 9/11 and 9/21 (the day of the tritium measurement; samples 6 and 7 in Table I) (42). In addition, there were two episodes of rain during the same 10-day period: on 9/14 and 9/20,21 (18), totaling 0.9 million gallons of water in the Bathtub area. Considering the neighboring areas, we take 1 million gallons from the rain. Therefore, a total of 4 million gallons of water percolated through the debris in the first 10 days and collected at the bottom of the Bathtub
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Mar, 2017 08:30 am
@Glennn,
Quote:
Really?

Yes.

I have already explained that fires tend to spread.

Quote:
Therefore, a total of 4 million gallons of water percolated through the debris in the first 10 days and collected at the bottom of the Bathtub

Ok so we agree: only the bottom of the pile could possibly be flooded, not the whole pile. The fire was therefore not flooded.

We're making progess: there was a fire in the rubble, it was not flooded, and it could have in places reached temperatures high enough to melt steel.

Small amounts of molten steel are thereby succesfully explained. They do NOT prove any melting of girders prior to collapse. Whatever metal melt, it could well have done so after the collpase.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Mar, 2017 08:50 am
@Olivier5,
By the way, "4 million gallons" may sound like a lot but divided by the large surface of ground zero (16 acres = 6.5 ha = 65,000 sq.meter) it only represents about 9.2 inches of water spread over the entire area. Not even a foot... Most of it vaporized anyway, given the heat. The amount of water on site was therefore negligible.

0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Mar, 2017 09:33 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
I have already explained that fires tend to spread.

No, you haven't explained how fires in the rubble spread down through the pulverized and compacted cement dust. You are simply saying that fires tend to spread. Also, you're not addressing my point about the fact that there were no fires in the North Tower below the impact zone. Tell me how the fire at the top of the Tower made its way to the basement levels. That part of the Tower would have ended up on top of the rubble pile and not down under all that steel and concrete in the basement levels.
Quote:
Ok so we agree: only the bottom of the pile could possibly be flooded, not the whole pile. The fire was therefore not flooded.

You are the one who talked about the burning office furnishings being enclosed in pulverized and compacted cement and melting steel before its fuel was exhausted. If you believe that the three million gallons of water didn't reach the fires because the fires were so enclosed, then you have to explain how air made it to these fires. That's a problem because if there was enough air making it to this office furnishings-fire, then water did, too.
Quote:
. . . and it could have in places reached temperatures high enough to melt steel. Plus the video I provided shows an enclosed steel beam wrapped up with gypsum board, aluminum, diesel fuel, etc. and put in a fire that burned for twenty-four hours without damaging the beam. I asked you if you believed that the beam would have melted if the whose setup was put in a hole in the ground and completely covered in compacted cement dust. You forgot to answer that.

NIST disagrees with you. In fact, they deny all eyewitness accounts of pools or rivers of molten metal underground. Are you with them, or do you think they're lying?

Now we can get to the issue of the physics-defying collapses of the WTCs. What would you like to say about that?
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Mar, 2017 09:50 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
If water can defy the laws of thermodynamic and not boil at 1500 C, anything can happen

This is you admitting that it was indeed a physics-defying collapse. This is good.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Mar, 2017 10:13 am
@Glennn,
I think God did it. He wanted to punish America for her sins, so he made sure that the fire burnt hotter, that the steel melt at lower temperatures than usual, and that water did not boil even when heated at 1500 C.

Nobody else can suspend the laws of physics... God is obviously to blame for 9/11.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Mar, 2017 10:21 am
@Glennn,
Quote:
If you believe that the three million gallons of water didn't reach the fires because the fires were so enclosed, then you have to explain how air made it to these fires. That's a problem because if there was enough air making it to this office furnishings-fire, then water did, too.

Because liquid water always flows down hill, while air (as any gas) can easily flow in all directions, including upward. That's why people can protect their head from rain with the use of an umbrella, while still being able to breathe: falling water cannot reach their head and yet fresh air can reach their mouth...
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Mar, 2017 12:00 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Nobody else can suspend the laws of physics... God is obviously to blame for 9/11.

That would certainly explain the physics-defying collapse of the three WTCs and the pools of molten metals and melted girders in the lower levels. If I were you, that's what I would have gone with, too.
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Mar, 2017 12:05 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
That's why people can protect their head from rain with the use of an umbrella, while still being able to breathe: falling water cannot reach their head and yet fresh air can reach their mouth

That's the most ridiculous analogy I've ever heard. You wrote it and here it will sit as a monument to your deductive skills.
 

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