An Actual Ethical Dilemma Thread???

Makes sense.

here's one: (real)


Your friend is insanely ( I mean that - you know, deaf, dumb and blind) in love with a fella.

You discover he has a history of domestic violence - and the abusive signs are already there in the relationship he is having with your friend....the attempts to isolate her, demeaning and putting her down in public etc...

If you say anything, although she is normally sensible (the friend this happened with is the toughest, smartest woman I know - and has/had NEVER, before or since, been in an abusive relationship) you know she is likely to go into denial about the reality of what you have said - and may turn on you, at least temporarily - also you will be especially targeted for getting rid of by the fella because he knows, now, that you are the enemy. (I don't mean killed or anything - but just that he will really focus on busting up your friendship)

Do you tell her, and risk not being able to be around for her - or keep silent, and hope to be there and active once the physical abuse starts, and she is hopefully prepared to confront reality?

Deb

You can't tell a person anything they desperately don't wish to believe. All you can do, in situation like this, is hang in there with the friend (if you care enough for her to put up with her temporary lapse in judgement PLUS put up with the company of object of her affection! ). Then you (sneakily) work on the reestablishment of her normal sanity & sound judgement by accentuating her positive perceptions & actions & being supportive when the vile fellow (inevitably) shows his true colours.
Romantic love is a very strange thing, indeed!

Difficult, when you can see it so clearly. All bets are off if and when violence happens, but I can see at least saying something before it does.
So what did you do?

What Olga said - but I tried gently to build upon her moments of disaffection with him, just by listening especially attentively.

He DID twig - and tried to frighten me away - there was this amazing conversation in a restaurant when we (the fella) and I had a huge confrontation - all in metaphor! He said (in disguise) that he was gonna make sure I didn't see her. I said - also in metaphor - that if he tried that, all bets were off, and he didn't scare me - and I wasn't leaving. All in a loo visit by my friend - and with smiles!

Again, I think you should tell your friend. It is more important to try to prevent that she falls under a situation of violence than keep a friend.If she doesn't listen to tou, than, it's her problem. You tried, you assumed your moral responsability. Now, it's to her.

Although I would probably do what Deb did, I'm pondering whether it would have been helpful to mention his abusive history. She might be blind to the issues in her relationship with him, but less so to his relationships with others. Don't know whether it would make a difference, though.

This is touchy stuff, Deb. Commenting on someone's significant other is dangerous turf. I'm always inclined to maintain the friendship--and hope for the best.

But, if we ignore the signs and 'hope for the best', we may be enabling abuse. I would gently broach the subject: "I heard this...you should check it out, I just thought you should know, I hope I was lied to, etc." Then, stick to the friend, ready to catch them when/if they fall. Have one hand out to catch them, and another on the 9 in 911.

I know an example just like this. I used to have a freind, Renae. My girlfriend was best freinds with Renae until Renae and James hooked up. Renae is blind to all of the horrible things James is. He cheats on her, hits her, lies to her, everything you can imagine, but she seems to not even care. My girlfriend lost her freindship over it because she spoke up and told Renae what a jerk her boyfreind was. Renae is a totally different person now and has lost many freinds, for a guy who will ruin her life. How's that for love!

You had already informed him. Ethically, you were not obligated to tell him again. If you informed him again, it was out of pure courtesy. You felt the need to remind him because you noticed that he possibly had forgotten. That's just being nice. Not the law from the way I see it. But then again, I'm not the ethics police.

I had this one once. I talked to the guy with HIV and told him that he needed to tell my friend or I would have to do it for him. He understood and quit seeing my friend. The new dilema might be what do you tell your friend about the mysterious break-up?

complicated, eh, Michael Allen and glad to see you back.

I am prone to honesty as the easiest thing, and even honesty is complex, as most of us know.

From my present pov, I try to be clear in some way where I am coming from, and then be straightforward, if not going on and on.

People engage more meticulously on some other threads, usually found under Politcs.

Ossobuco: I agree. Dishonesty, while it might buy you some time, only makes things worse in the long run. It's better to hurt people a little now, and be in the right, than hurt them a lot later, and be in the wrong.
MichaelAllen: The truth. If the friend asks you point-blank, you have an obligation to tell them, since the HIV person didn't, but also to make sure they know not to disclose information about the HIV person to others.

There's a newspaper article about an ethical dilemma that I actually didn't quite have - the doctors made the decision - if you register (free) at telegraph.co.uk and search for 'Simon said liver was wasted on him' you will see it.

Those are biguns - the medical ones...

The ethical dilemma is best seen in it's pure form in THE TIN MEN by Micheal Frayn.It's about 30 years old.We used tom-toms to send messages in those days.
An ethical dilemma is a convenient technique for sitting on your arse wittering away about whatever you want to no purpose using forms of words especially created to give the supply side an inferiority complex vis-a-vis the demand side.
The philosophy department at Cambridge University is top of the Premier League in this particular leisure activity.They usually get tens of millions of points every season and have been virtually unchallenged in the English speaking world for donkey's years.It is fair to say that all ethical dilemmas can confidently be referred to this most august instituton for adjudication.11 am is the peak referal opportunity as they are usually up and about by then and have still to get their chomping tackle round lunch after which early afternoon coma kicks in.

spendius.

Greetings Spendius.

This is spendius dandlecork.
spendii don't provoke bunnies.Pussies maybe.Flange stalls.That type of challenge.Top of the range stuff.

Best wishes.

spendius (small s foureyes).

Clary: your particular situation yields a rather interesting ethical dilemma, but I think the members here would be reluctant to discuss an issue that has such a direct emotional connection to you without your permission. Would you be willing to have this debated as an abstract ethical problem?

Thanks Joe - I was tippy-toeing around that one.