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An Actual Ethical Dilemma Thread???

 
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 08:23 am
The dilemma, Gus? To warn him - and hence almost certainly stop him from talking - or to let him go ahead - clearly having forgotten that a serious crime confessed by him will be passed on to the authorities.

ie - fiduciary duty to client - or some kind of duty to society, I guess.
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 08:24 am
I changed my mind. I'll bet you let him talk, and didn't report it.
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willow tl
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 08:26 am
but if she did that and told her colleagues wouldn't they then be obligated to report D?
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Letty
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 08:27 am
Well, the psychotic stuff is coming from my assumption that anyone with murderous intent (if we can assume that) is in some way, mentally screwed up. I still say that you let him talk.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 08:27 am
willow_tl wrote:
but if she did that and told her colleagues wouldn't they then be obligated to report D?


Prolly not - hearsay.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 08:28 am
Letty wrote:
Well, the psychotic stuff is coming from my assumption that anyone with murderous intent (if we can assume that) is in some way, mentally screwed up. I still say that you let him talk.


Lol - lots are screwed up without being psychotic.
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willow tl
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 08:29 am
curiousier and curiousier!
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 08:30 am
I say she must have asked him to remain silent. If he admitted to a crime the legal ramifications may cause the possibility of him escaping punishment for said crime because of some legal mumble-jumble.

Dlowan may have suspected he commited a heinous crime, but thought it better to remain forever curious than have him get away with murder.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 08:30 am
Anyhoo - I reminded him of the limits of confidentiality - and he nearly went ahead - but stopped himself.

It was sad. I think he WANTED to tell - and it would have been good for him in a way. Well, until the lawyers got hold of him - then he would have convinced himself that he was badly done by and victimised - and the good of confronting whatever he had done would have been gone.

Or so I conjecture! It is all conjecture.
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 08:32 am
dlowan wrote:
I was assessing an offender for a report to go to the judge to give some background and such prior to sentencing.


This was not a police interrogation but an after conviction assessment interview prior to sentencing. You were not there to collect information about potential crimes. He did not assume that you were there to collect information about other crimes, but rather assess his character. So you were not obligated, nor IMHO should you have collected information on other possible crimes that had not already been presented in court. If this had been an interrogation he would have had the legal right to lam up and your job would have been impossible.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 08:32 am
gustavratzenhofer wrote:
I say she must have asked him to remain silent. If he admitted to a crime the legal ramifications may cause the possibility of him escaping punishment for said crime because of some lega mumble-jumble.

Dlowan may have suspected he commited a heinous crime, but thought it better to remain forever curious than have him get away with murder.


I would never have ASKED him to remain silent. I reminded him of info relevant to his decision.

If he had murdered - he "got away" with it, anyway.

My curiosity, while there, is the least of my concerns, Gus.
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 08:34 am
Well.... you asked me to play.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 08:35 am
Acquiunk wrote:
dlowan wrote:
I was assessing an offender for a report to go to the judge to give some background and such prior to sentencing.


This was not a police interrogation but an after conviction assessment interview prior to sentencing. You were not there to collect information about potential crimes. He did not assume that you were there to collect information about other crimes, but rather assess his character. So you were not obligated, nor IMHO should you have collected information on other possible crimes that had not already been presented in court. If this had been an interrogation he would have had the legal right to lam up and your job would have been impossible.


Had he talked, it would have been because of the establishment of what he found to be a therapeutic relationship. I was not attempting to collect info about non-recorded crimes - he seemingly tried to volunteer it for a moment.

He always had the right not to co-operate at all, by the way.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 08:36 am
Anyone else got a real dilemma?

I mean, I am happy if folk wanna continue discussing this one - but a new one would be fun!
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 08:38 am
gustavratzenhofer wrote:
Well.... you asked me to play.


I thought I had the serious Gus on my hands - rara aves though he is!
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 08:38 am
Here's my dilemma:

A woman I know asked me about a dilemma she had. I was polite and tried to help her out, but she became really rude and yelled at me.

Should I have just remained silent? Or did I do the right thing by opening myself up to such an attack?
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willow tl
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 08:38 am
Quote:
He always had the right not to co-operate at all, by the way.


Then you must be good D, i worked as a guard in the max security prison and some of these guys are so hard they take their crimes(unsolved) to the grave...
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 08:42 am
I am sure most do, Willow - though I have had the experience of working with a couple of fellows who decided to take THEMSELVES to the police.

Not common, of course, though.
A few sexual abusers have done it, though.
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 08:43 am
dlowan wrote:
I am way less interested in the LEGAL judgement than I am in the right or wrong thing to do - whether or not it meant a conviction.

If I understand it correctly, the moral dilemma you posit here is between your obligation to the law (which would require warning the prisoner and possibly losing the confession) and your obligation to some sort of notion of "justice" (criminals should be punished for their crimes). An analysis of the dilemma, then, would focus upon the competing obligations: which outweighs the other? Is your obligation to follow the law more important than your obligation to see that "justice" is done?

As I see it, there's hardly any dilemma at all. In a democratic society, the laws embody society's collective sense of "justice." Breaking the law to promote justice, then, is a paradoxical, if not absurd, notion, since breaking the law, in and of itself, promotes injustice.

Now, one might maintain that a small injustice (breaking the law) is permissible if it serves to avoid a great injustice (letting a criminal go unpunished). From a Kantian perspective, however, that argument has no merit: no one can assert that laws should be followed in some cases, as that calls into question the validity of all law.

Even under a utilitarian analysis, the duty here is clear: the greater good is best served by adhering to the laws rather than to some idiosyncratic notion of "justice." The alternative is placing the determinations of "just" and "unjust" in the hands of every individual, which would mean the end of all law, and all "justice," entirely.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Oct, 2004 08:46 am
Yes, Joe - in the split second I had - that - and my obligation to treat the actual flesh and blood fella in front of me properly - prevailed.

However, I got plenty of intense flak from colleagues when I discussed it later, and I have always been interested in how others might view it.
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