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Confessions of a Cheese Rebel

 
 
contrex
 
  3  
Reply Mon 26 Dec, 2016 05:51 am
@Builder,
Builder wrote:
There's a gulf of difference between fermented foods and cured meats.

Some charcuterie is both cured and fermented, e.g. salami, while bacon and some hams are only cured. Iberian jamon and Italian prosciutto hams are fermented. The bacteria (e.g. Lactobacillus and Leuconostoc) produce lactic acid as a waste product, which lowers the pH and coagulates the proteins, reducing the meat's water-holding capacity. The bacteria-produced acid makes the meat an inhospitable environment for pathogenic bacteria and imparts a tangy flavour that distinguishes salami from machine-dried pork. Salami flavour relies as much on how these bacteria are cultivated as it does on the quality and variety of the other ingredients. Originally, makers introduced wine into the mix, favouring the growth of other beneficial bacteria. Now, they use starter cultures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermentation_in_food_processing

You can make jerky by just dry curing, or by chemical methods, but some people use fermentation to get the water out, like this guy here

http://traditionaltx.us/Jerky.pdf



Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 26 Dec, 2016 06:37 am
@contrex,
Most of our local "wurst" (salami-like charcuterie but others as well) is fermented, eaten on fermented bread (nearly all kinds of bread are fermented), accompanied by a fermented drink (beer)
contrex
 
  2  
Reply Mon 26 Dec, 2016 06:50 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Most of our local "wurst" (salami-like charcuterie but others as well) is fermented, eaten on fermented bread (nearly all kinds of bread are fermented), accompanied by a fermented drink (beer)

Microbes are truly our little friends.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 26 Dec, 2016 07:10 am
@contrex,
Mites are little friends, too - cheeses are semi-hard to hard rennet cheeses ( Cantal, Salers, Tomme de Montagne) to a softer sour milk cheese (Milbenkäse, a speciality from Saxony/Saxony-Anhalt/Thuringia )
0 Replies
 
TomTomBinks
 
  2  
Reply Mon 26 Dec, 2016 09:35 am
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
To me, chicken liver tastes worse than cow liver.

Just the opposite with me. I find beef liver too strong and only eat it rarely. It's not too different from deer liver. Chicken liver on the other hand is much milder and really good sautéed with onions in butter!
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Dec, 2016 10:19 am
@TomTomBinks,
(Berlin style) Calf's liver is my favourite since childhood.
TomTomBinks
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Dec, 2016 03:34 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I've never tried it, I'm sure it's better than full grown beef liver.
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Dec, 2016 04:22 pm
@contrex,
Quote:
You can make jerky by just dry curing, or by chemical methods, but some people use fermentation to get the water out, like this guy here


Very interesting. I also had no idea about proscuitto being fermented, but now I understand why.

We only used the back strap (eye fillet, I think it's called) of the donkey, which is very lean, and rather tender, and dried it in an electric dehydrator.

Thanks for the info.
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Dec, 2016 12:52 am
@TomTomBinks,
Prepared and cooked right, beef liver is quite satisfying and delicious.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Dec, 2016 05:12 am
@Sturgis,
Disagree here STurgis. I hate almost anything made with liver, including foia- gras. Its been described as a vile "meat butter" by folks who agree with me. Many of my colleagues (who also hate liver) describe the taste and texture of fried or sauteed beef liver as " Like eating slices of dirt", and I always default to that description.

I dont think that, to a true liver hater there is any way to "properly prepare and serve liver"

It all goes to our genetics makeup and the food pleasure center of the brain, the papillae to the thalamus to the nucleus accumbens
Genetic induced sensitivity to certain tastes hqve all been identified and attempts to explain their significance hqve ll gone to an old chestnut that ,"WE CAN TASTE AND NEGATIVELY REACT TO CERTAIN FLAVORS BECAUSE OF SOME PALEO HISTORICAL SENSITIVITY TO POISONS".
I dont really accept that because how is a fear of poisons passed on to some degree of accumulation.However, e recognize the genetic association with some ferruginous chemical in liver that some love nd others hate.

I always get this same argument about eating wild venison. "You dont like it because you havent had it prepared right"
Well, Ive had farm raised and "gently killed" venison prepared in a four star restaurant and it still left this gaggy taste in my mouth.
Iguess Im one of the many whove been endowed with this "meat alarm" in my taste centers and Ill probably never need to enjoy liver (without being tied down and force fed)
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Dec, 2016 05:27 am
@farmerman,
Liver was something I had to endure, coming from a large family upbringing, along with tripe.

Now that I get to decide what I'm eating, I wouldn't wish liver on my enemies.



0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Dec, 2016 05:45 am
Of all liver I was force fed, calf liver seemed most palatable, but that's not calling it good. I don't know why some can enjoy while others gag. I would have to take it in pills to ingest some.
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Dec, 2016 05:47 am
@edgarblythe,
I actually learned to tolerate lambs fry and bacon for a while, but now I'm off the bacon as well.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Dec, 2016 06:07 am
@contrex,
I wish there could be a common outcome fermented sausage. The EU fermented sausages like chorizo and pepperonis add a lot of nitrites to rop the pH, while in the US we use these really aggressive bacterial cultures that, while allowing the fermentation to happen quickly, leave the product sour and stringy. So, wither you ingest carcinogens (European) or your sausage tastes shitty.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Tue 27 Dec, 2016 06:19 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
The EU fermented sausages like chorizo and pepperonis add a lot of nitrites to rop the pH, ...
Depends on where you buy it resp. from what butcher - you get such sausages without any nitrites (and some regional specialities like Palatine liver sausages traditionally are produced without nitrites. (And all sold with the label of a couple of 'organic organisations')
It needs a bit knowledge of craftsmanship.
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  4  
Reply Tue 27 Dec, 2016 06:23 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
I wish there could be a common outcome fermented sausage. The EU fermented sausages like chorizo and pepperonis add a lot of nitrites to rop the pH

You can get "organic" or "natural recipe" European products in the USA, for example the Spanish Palacios brand of chorizo and lomo (cured pork loins) which don't have any nitrates or nitrites added.

http://www.palacioschorizo.com/



Builder
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Dec, 2016 06:28 am
@contrex,
I used to wonder why bacon and ham cured before we "discovered" nitrates and nitrites lasted so well, but after, went slimy even stored in the fridge. That's not progress at all.

0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Dec, 2016 08:20 am
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Of all liver I was force fed, calf liver seemed most palatable, but that's not calling it good.

Yes, a fresh oil filter is less disgusting to eat than an old used one.
0 Replies
 
ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Dec, 2016 09:29 am
@Sturgis,
I've had good beef liver once, on a car trip with hub, bro in law, and my niece. Not a fancy restaurant, just a chain restaurant on a highway.
On the other hand, I hated it when my mother made it. I have a side bet with myself that a certain doctor told her it was good for a growing girl. (She'd be 115 now.)
0 Replies
 
ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Dec, 2016 09:34 am
@contrex,
Thanks for the tip, I'll check if it's available in this city, Albuquerque. I tried the regular stuff in the market, yack. But there are one or two shops that might carry it.

I wonder if Mario Batali's father's meat shop is still in business; as I remember, he raises and makes his own. His place is or was in Washington State. There's another such place in the midwest, name I'm forgetting right now. I checked them out before, but with the high prices and shipping, not for me.
0 Replies
 
 

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