He loves her but doesn't like her?

Okay, I read through this twice to make sure I had the story correct. So, she is the one making the accusation that he does not like her, but loves her. I'm going to try to be objective here, because I've been in similar disagreements. I have gone so far as to at least admit, in times of extreme duress, "I love you, but I don't particularly like you right now." He hasn't said anything of the sort. She is making the assumptions based on his nastiness. I understand this, and it's completely natural when long-time couples get heated about things. It sounds like he is passive-aggressive, and maybe feels a bit emasculated during familial arguments. She probably feels that she's doing everything and getting very little in return, which makes her frustrated, and if she's a firecracker, she probably just gets right into it and lays into him.

One does not have to be 'childish' to have control issues. My advice would be for her to rethink her communication strategy. Rather than make accusations, take a few deep breaths and have a discussion instead. Obviously, I don't know your friend, but I think that might help. Also, he needs to start saying what he REALLY feels, rather than relate to petty insults. Given what you say is his nature, he probably won't until she changes her method of communicating. I would guess that telling her that will probably make her go ballistic, but trust me, it works. It's all about compromise. She may also want to think about why she's staying, if it's such a misery. If she discovers that it is indeed out of love, the answers to resolving the communication problems on both sides may become more clear.

I also read this a couple of times, waiting for light to dawn. I don't get what's so awful about her example.

Do you know if she is feeling guilty about something? Working too much? Attracted to someone else? This seems a little like overcompensation to me, like for whatever reason the little slings and arrows of long term relationships are being given more portent than they deserve.

You think?
Could it be menopausal madness?

My mom called it MentalPause because it causes you to say and do things you would not normally say or do....perhaps it is.

Or perhaps he is having a mid-life crisis and can't figure out what to do with his frustration. We always hurt the ones we love.

Ok, so now here is a plug for a book I just read....it sounds cheesy at first but it really makes sense if you think about it. The Five Languages of Love by Gary Chapman. It basically states that everyone feels loved in different ways; some people feel most loved when their partner gives them gifts (cards, flowers, jewlery, whatever), while others feel more loved when their partner gives them words of affirmation (I love you...you are such a wonderful person...I am so pround of you). Which makes sense because all of us are different. The point is that sometimes you love someone in a language they don't understand and that makes them feel bad or unloved. Like the wife who's love language is gifts and no matter what her husband says to her or how many times he says he loves her, she just doesn't feel completely loved. It can manifest itself in lots of ways; hurt, anger, frustration, insecurity, jealousy....ect. Good book...

Just a suggestion.

That does sound like an interesting book, Kiristie.

Is it possible that your friend's husband feels overwhelmed by her initiative and energy? That his nasty digs and cruel remarks are an attempt to bolster his own weak ego?

He says hurtful things--and then wants them "not to count". This doesn't sound like "love" to me--more like a bratty kid who likes to dish out the abuse, but who doesn't want to be hurt back.

"You're right about the issue, but "rightness" doesn't count because you're rubbing my face in your "rightness"? Crazy making--and whether consciously or unconsciously, he's doing it on purpose.

Couples counseling would be ideal--but if he won't go with her, she should go alone.

She IS the driving force in their relationship. If it wasn't for her pushing, they would still be in his cramped bachelor's apartment instead of a beautiful eight room home. He laughs about that himself.

I think you may have hit on something, Noddy. From what I've seen, he's pretty laid back while she's the get up and go type, making things happen. Of course, he benefits from all of these things that she makes happen but perhaps instead of appreciating this about her, he resents it?

Sometimes men can lash out when they're afraid. Sort of pre-emptive strikes. I believe he's scared of losing her and he is starting to realize how important she is in their success.
Anyways, I think you two hit it there.

I with panzade, and this can be worked out, provided they are willing to compromise, and learn how to talk to each other.

She sounds hard to live with. I think her husband is just letting his frustrations have a voice. He should learn to say what he means rather than just striking out.

Honestly? I'd tell her to lighten up on him, give him his space to just be... hook her up to some good debate boards where she can argue her opinions without repercussions within the home or neighborhood. I can only imagine how stressful it must be for the man to constantly have another's opinions thrust upon one. Some people break under that sort of stress, others flatten out as if steam-rolled, others need to lash out to make the opinionated one back off.

They really are good together and the love is there. You can see it and feel it just being around them. That's why this revelation from her has rocked me so.
I think they can definitely work this out. Maybe she feels better today about it all. I'll talk to her tonight and get back to yall.

Doh, okay, one more piece of wisdom, from my wife. After a very heated argument a while ago, she said she wouldn't get so mad if she didn't love me to death. If there was no love, she would be indifferent. I will remember that for the rest of my life.

That is so true, cav. The opposite of love is not hate...it is apathy.

One thing tho. I'm trying to leave room for the simple fact that knowing someone and actually living with someone are two different things. She may be hell to live with. I doubt it, seriously, but one just never knows.

It is possible they are both hell to live with. What they decide to do about it is the important thing.

Absolutely. If that's the case then they do belong together, right?

IMO, yes, but they need to learn to talk.

Is this behavior recent? Has his attitude changed - e.g. he used to let her have her way and say nothing - and now he snaps back at her?

I noticed something between my parents some years ago. My mother, always the verbally abusive go-getter, demanding, assertive, demanded much of my father and generally got it or life was miserable (for him and us). He was quiet, agreeable, let her get her own way - mainly for a quiet life but also because she was smart and he was happy to let her lead. Some years ago, I noticed him withdrawing and answering her back, picking fights, not giving in to her demands, etc. I asked him what was going on and he said he was just plain tired and very unhappy and that it was his own fault for letting her walk all over him for so many years but now that his health was not good and he was getting older he was just exhausted from all the stress and not being able to just relax, having to always be considering her wants and needs all the time before he did anything at all.

I sat down with my mother, who was livid at his recent behavior and explained that it was time for her to slow down too. She needed to be less of a perfectionist and give the guy a break. After an initial outburst she gradually started to come around. Both of them went for a long walk together and talked - really talked - for the first time in many years. They found that they really loved each other but many things about each others characters niggled them so badly that they felt drained from trying to maintain normalcy and bear to be in the same room with each other.

Being able to look at it in a new light meant they each realized that neither one of them was perfect and what was the point in haranguing each other when it was easier and less stress to be nice and find things to enjoy together. Yes, they still have issues but then what couple doesn't. It was nice to see them work it out.

The message here is - neither your friend nor her husband are 100% to blame for the unhappiness they are experiencing right now. It is their expectations or abilities to handle situations right now that are driving the issues between them. The husband is wanting to have a "say" or at least for his wife to give him a break here and there. The wife needs to step back and wonder what it would be like to be in his shoes, having her harping at him until he concedes a point to her (yes that is her personality and he loves her despite it) but does she ever wonder how wearing it can be on him after a long time? He could be more direct with his issues and not snipe at her, since he appears to resent her occasionally and goes about it the wrong way trying to get her to hear him. Guys - women need to hear exactly what is wrong. We tend to break it down and misinterpret signals, words, a look, anything, making a mountain out of a molehill. He is trying to get a message across that he is unhappy with things (and I don't think it's a huge unhappy, it's the little things that may seem so minor as to be unimportant). They need to communicate to each other without blaming and whining and picking. They also both have to be able to accept that part of the solution is changes on both parts.

Excellent. Wish she could read this thread but she'd strangle me dead if she knew I was writing about her.