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Is anyone else frustrated?

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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2004 07:46 am
can't wait to see "team america" !!!

i hosted matt and trey in one of my edit bays a few years back. they really are pretty nice guys. i asked them for a simple autograph for my nephew, a south park fan, for birthday present... and instead they made up a cartman b-day card for him on the spot.

pretty cool for a couple of rich dudes...
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2004 07:52 am
Re: Is anyone else frustrated?
SCoates wrote:
I live in a fairly republican community, and I have to tell you, we are pretty frustrated. Obviously we don't want Bush, but we have no choice. It's either him or we all vote democrat. I'm talking about an entire state here, not just a local book club. I live in a republican state, and we do not want bush. For the first time I'm hearing of many very patriotic people refusing to vote. We don't want to support either candidate.

Is this a common dilemma? I'm pretty young, and this is my second time being able to vote, so I suppose my experience is invalid, but shouldn't we have some other choice?


that's the bush strategy as you've probably read...keep voters not voting at all rather than vote for Kerry. You need to choose. It's a hard choice for you I bet, and I don't envy you, but if you think bush can't and isn't doing the job...why not give Kerry a chance? He may screw up. You know bush will But removing yourself from the process is the slow death of democracy.....
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2004 07:56 am
Parker and Stone are geniuses, IMHO. I feel the same way about The Simpsons, and Family Guy. The beauty of cartoonish humour is that you can say what you really feel without the fear of retribution, because it's CARTOONS or say, PUPPETS saying it, not real human beings. That's actually an interesting thing, given what I've seen on the debates. Laughing I'm looking forward to 'Team America' as well.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2004 08:00 am
Yet at least 50% of the population think Bush has done a fairly decent job. So I don't think it's a given that everyone KNOWS he will screw up.

We can surmise from Kerry's voting record that he is very liberal and we know from the campaign that he is either a grand champion liar or he honestly doesn't hold any strong convictions on the things he talks about. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume the latter is true, i.e. what he says at the time, he believes is true at the time. He does change his position on things way too many times and in too short a time frame in order for us to have any confidence of which way he'll go as president.

There are two deal makers in this campaign for me. 1. Do I believe the candidate has been consistent in what he says he believes? and 2. Does the candidate have a strong track record on a commitment to a strong defense, national security, the war on terroism.

Bush makes it, however, marginally on both accounts. Kerry's history, voting record, and rhetoric fail miserably on both accounts.
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2004 08:02 am
yep. but a good thing that we're gonna be spared the offensive and crippling puppet violence and sex scenes.

unlike reality t.v. and the evening snooze...

jeeeeeeeezzzzzzzz...........
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2004 08:16 am
To adress the fine comment by BPB regarding the "slow death of democracy", I still maintain that it will be your two party system in the end.
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2004 01:43 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
There are two deal makers in this campaign for me. 1. Do I believe the candidate has been consistent in what he says he believes? and 2. Does the candidate have a strong track record on a commitment to a strong defense, national security, the war on terroism.

Bush makes it, however, marginally on both accounts. Kerry's history, voting record, and rhetoric fail miserably on both accounts.


see? this is what really fascinates me, fox...

we are both looking at the same two guys and we're seeing absolutely opposite things.

i view bush as having failed on nearly every issue.

and kerry, i've spent time looking at his voting on thomas.com and come away feeling o.k. with his direction. i'm not seeing the flip flop. i did notice that he has been very much a strong voice for veteran's benefits and rights.

so, to me, it is bush that has failed miserably on actions and rhetoric.
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SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2004 04:48 pm
In this case I am afraid I must refuse to support the lesser of two evils. I would rather say that I failed to vote than be partly responsible for either of them.
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2004 04:49 pm
Hope you don't live in Florida Coates.
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A Lone Voice
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2004 04:56 pm
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
A Lone Voice wrote:
It would have been fascinating to watch this election if it would have been Bush vs Dean. Dean was actually pretty attractive in the eyes of many conservatives in some of his issues,


what??? really ??? i have never heard any of my con friends say that. all they have said to me is "anti-war freak!!!". but man, if ya got something for me, give it up! this i've gotta hear!


Check this out DTOM:

Dean refused to raise takes as governor, and implemented millions of dollars of social cuts in order to balance the state budget. He supports NAFTA and the World Trade Organization, and consistently has taken the side of business against environmentalists.

He favors the death penalty, and has a high favorable rating by the National Rifle Association.

He was known in Vermont as a fiscally conservative and socially liberal governor. He looks to be very similar to how Arnie is developing.

I think Dean, believe it or not, may have actually siphoned off many more conservative/libertarian voters then Kerry. And with the unanticipated setbacks in Iraq, he might have actually capitalized on his anti-war platform.

His Iraq message certainly would have been much more consistent then Kerry's.

Here is a link to an article that touches on some of these issues:

Link:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_32/b3845084.htm


Interesting stuff, don't you think?
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2004 05:07 pm
Very interesting Lone Voice, thanks.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2004 05:33 pm
Dean really was the libertarian in the race and it will be interesting the see the 'crib notes' when they are published and explain how the other Dems were able to scuttle his campaign so effectively. Or maybe he did it himself with his anti-war stance as a majority of voters do support the war in Iraq. I liked Dean though and, except for his Iraq posiition, would have felt much better about him being president than John Kerry.

(Ironically once Kerry demolished Dean, he adopted his anti-war rhetoric.)

DTOM, people seeing things differently and remaining friends is what democracy is all about. I believe the evidence better supports my opinions re Bush and Kerry and you believe you see it correctly.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2004 05:43 pm
A lot of what is being written here seems to reduce to: John Kerry (a career politician) is willing to say almost anything in order to be elected!


Folks...that is like accusing him of wearing a tie!

Gimme a break!
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2004 06:38 pm
Laughing
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InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2004 08:30 pm
SCoates wrote:
In this case I am afraid I must refuse to support the lesser of two evils. I would rather say that I failed to vote than be partly responsible for either of them.


Then why not consider voting for someone else, rather than just throwing your vote away?
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SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2004 03:27 pm
There's a difference?
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2004 04:17 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
spending like drunken sailors


The president claims he is dry and has been so for years so that is not an excuse.

The fiscal policies of this administration are worst I can recall and that alone should be sufficient to vote them out of office.
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2004 04:26 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Dean really was the libertarian in the race and it will be interesting the see the 'crib notes' when they are published and explain how the other Dems were able to scuttle his campaign so effectively. Or maybe he did it himself with his anti-war stance as a majority of voters do support the war in Iraq.


Dean was on NPR the other night talking about his campaign and he identified three major "faults" that caused him to drop out of the race. These were 1) his unwillingness to talk about himself, 2) his unwillingness to talk about his religious beliefs and 3) the lack of involvement of his wife in the campaign. The first two he identified as traits particular to New England (he was governor of Vermont) and I tend to agree with that. We New Englander seem to be much more reticent than the rest of the nation about personal information, especially religion, which is regarded as a private matter. The third was a Dean family decision which he admitted was probably a mistake. I recall his wife being severally criticized for not participating in the campaign.
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bashtoreth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Oct, 2004 06:05 pm
Throwing my vote away
Hello, all. New member here.

InfraBlue, sadly, with our current electoral situation in every state except MAYBE Nebraska and Maine (since the latter two have proportional representation in the electoral college), voting for someone other than the "two evils" IS throwing your vote away. Allow me to explain:

If my entire legislative district (every single voter) voted for one of the "third party" candidates, it might be interesting enough for the local newspapers to report, but otherwise, nothing will result from our crazy behavior, since every electoral vote goes to the STATEWIDE winner of the general election.

Expanding--if enough votes in the state were cast for that poor third party candidate to win 5 of our 11 electoral votes, our current system STILL grants all electoral votes to the statewide winner. In, I believe, New Mexico last year, the vote differential between Bush and Gore was 366 (Bush winning). But who cares? The difference could have been ONE vote, and Bush would have still garnered EVERY electoral college vote.

So why do you even consider that voting for a third party candidate is better than NOT voting, when I am the only person who even CARES which of the "also rans" I voted for?

Let me be clear--I WILL be voting this year (as I have in every election for the past 13 years), but I am seriously considering leaving a hanging chad in the "for President" section. Why not make it difficult for the election officials to figure out which of the losers I am voting for?
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Oct, 2004 03:14 am
A Lone Voice wrote:
Interesting stuff, don't you think?


yeah. i'll have to look into this more. i really like the idea of a balanced budget.

socially liberal, fiscally conservative. i've been driving my mom and pop nuts over this one for over 20 years. " how can you be for******* and then be for ********????

i tell them it's chinese menu politics. 1 from column a, and 2 from....
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