3
   

What is the soul?

 
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Dec, 2016 12:30 am
@farmerman,
Smile Its quite simple.

If 'life' cannot be accounted for* in purely mechanistic/causal terms, then it opens the door to transcendental speculations such as the concept of 'soul'. Obviously, like 'God' the meaning of such a concept rests merely with its social and psychological functionality rather than its empirical status. Statements about the soul's 'location' or 'persistence' are meaningless as far as non-believers are concerned.

"(Regarding that 'if,' the work of Prigogine on the occurence of
spontaneous self sustaning dissipative structures goes some way to to suggesting the nature of life processes).
Skeleton
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Dec, 2016 12:52 am
@chai2,
You know what dude, I understand everyone has different views. You don't believe it because you can't see it, and that's fine. I was raised on beliefs, so my opinion is different. So I'm not going to argue. All I'll say is that the soul isn't a physical thing. It's like, your being.

Like, the concept kinda dwells outside of science because science can't describe it.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Dec, 2016 02:33 am
@fresco,
Im glad you cleared that up>
nacredambition
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Dec, 2016 06:04 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
What is the soul?


To be fair , explanations of philosophical points can be easier to absorb that some of the harder stuff - it's not rock science.

The lost souls brigade mounts.

And for those with a religious bent I offer this, yet again:



0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 Dec, 2016 11:52 am
@Skeleton ,
Skeleton wrote:

You know what dude, I understand everyone has different views. You don't believe it because you can't see it, and that's fine. I was raised on beliefs, so my opinion is different. So I'm not going to argue. All I'll say is that the soul isn't a physical thing. It's like, your being.

Like, the concept kinda dwells outside of science because science can't describe it.


I was raised on beliefs too skel. But believing something doesn't make it so.

I'm not arguing either, but I would like to hear what you mean in more detail by your saying the soul is your "being".

In any event it seems you're automatically negating your believability by calling this matter an opinion or view. By saying that you eliminate any accountability for explaining the Why you think something exists.

Dwells outside of science? Raised on beliefs? That's a dangerous combination my friend. That's saying you can create a world based on nothing but personal preference, "what you've been raised to believe" and removes all curiosity about anything.

Substitute this for what you've already said:

I was raised on believing certain groups of people are inferior. That's my view and opinion. It dwells outside of science because science can't describe it.

We all have personal opinions and views. In general believing there is a soul or not isn't a particularly dangerous one. If it's comforting that's wonderful. My gargoyle Kevin comforts the hell out of me (See my carb thread for an amazing picture of Kevin approving my supper).

However, don't sell yourself short by not questioning something based on "it's how I was raised. "
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Dec, 2016 12:31 pm
@Skeleton ,
The religious contradict one another regarding the soul more than scientists.

If the religious community could find a consensus on what the soul is versus what the spirit is rather than many educated theists using them interchangeably then maybe a definition would exist.

Once again the solution to this problem does not create any revenue, only the constant debate creates the divide necessary to keep this straw person alive.

Even the Bible often contradicts itself regarding soul and spirit.

Though the Bible defines soul and spirit and divides them respectively into their own categories, it also amalgamates them into one thing on many occasions.

Similarly, one can study the word "know" in the Bible until it can mean nothing and everything.

The study of God is an oxymoron.
Skeleton
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Dec, 2016 03:51 pm
@chai2,
I don't believe anyone is inferior to me, lol. I don't hate anyone.

It's really not easy to describe the spiritual stuff in detail, honestly I just follow the belief out of fear and hope. I don't even read the Bible, I just stick with what was pumped into my head because my parents forced me to. And on the chance that there is heaven and hell, I'll make sure I go to the right place. And say it isn't real? Well then there won't be any consequences.
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Dec, 2016 04:23 pm
@TheCobbler,
Quote:
Even the Bible often contradicts itself regarding soul and spirit.


Considering the Bible is a book, written by people, often decades after an event was said to have occurred, lessens how much stock can be placed in believing it. Add to this, the dozens of translations and versions, the Bible is rapidly reduced to a bunch of thin pages with letters on them. But, hey, if a person wants to believe in it as the holiest of tomes, then that's their right, I won't attempt to stop them. Same holds true for beliefs and feelings about the soul. At the end of the day, how can any of us really know what is and what isn't?
chai2
 
  3  
Reply Sat 10 Dec, 2016 05:44 pm
@Skeleton ,
Skeleton wrote:

I don't believe anyone is inferior to me, lol. I don't hate anyone.

It's really not easy to describe the spiritual stuff in detail, honestly I just follow the belief out of fear and hope. I don't even read the Bible, I just stick with what was pumped into my head because my parents forced me to. And on the chance that there is heaven and hell, I'll make sure I go to the right place. And say it isn't real? Well then there won't be any consequences.


Re your first sentence, if that's what you got out of what I said, you've completely missed the point.

I didn't say you thought anyone was inferior.

I said your saying you were raised on (unexamimed) beliefs is a general statement were all sorts of horrible things can be said.

I believe is a soul because those are the beliefs I was raised with....

Replace with

I believe some people are inferior because those are the beliefs I was raised with.
I'm a Republican, Democrat, homophobic, belong to this religion, give to charities, hate Jews/Muslims/Christians, am a vegan, socialist etc, because those are the beliefs I was raised with.

If you want to live an unexamined life believing what was pumped into your head, and forced to believe, if you want to live either in fear of something that was pumped into your head, if you want to live by making a wish on some great cosmic, supernatural birthday cake, that's your choice.

The reason you can't describe/define what a soul is, or spiritual stuff in detail, is because you've never given it any thought. That's not an insult, but an invitation.

If there is a God, and you believe he can know your thoughts and true feelings, do you think he would be hoodwinked by a persons half assed "I didn't really think about or know what to believe, so kinda just said the words because, you know, what the heck."

If there is a supreme being, I'm pretty sure he'd want a person to take a firm stand one way or the other.

I'm picturing God as the Soup Nazi.

"You believed in me only as far to cover all your bases?"

"NO SOUP FOR YOU!"

Sweetie, you can live a completely moral, upstanding life, being proud of the good person you are, live a full and happy life, seeking out opportunites to help others, and belief in the soul, or God, or any of that has nothing to do with it.

Skeleton
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Dec, 2016 08:13 pm
@chai2,
It's not that I try to half ass it. I'm just, I don't know, kinda cynical about it. Not sure if that's the right word. I believe God is Le supreme being, and that's what I've stuck with. You don't know how many atheists have tried to convert me, I just say **** them and do what I do. I haven't prayed in forever, but it would take probably a lobotomy to make me lose my faith. Totally never experienced a lobotomy though so I can't say that for sure.
Skeleton
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Dec, 2016 08:25 pm
@chai2,
I guess I'm just a very one-track mind kind of person and it's hard to sway me once I grip onto something. I mean that has to count for something. If God is the soup nazi I'm sure he would notice if I stalked him and camped in his shop, even when other people told me I was crazy. That's what I do, I stalk God and camp in his shop because I know he notices me. God senpai has to notice me.
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Dec, 2016 08:44 pm
@Sturgis,
Considering that soul is defined quite extensively in the Bible it would not be a complete discussion without at least trying to parse what the Bible is actually saying about soul.

I am an agnostic due mainly to the fact that I did not just get the Bible pumped into me as a youngster but then I went on to study the Bible though several languages and years of research.

This convinced me that no true God could elicit such barbaric words and remain sinless.

Does the soul exist?

One might do better asking does "life" exist and if so, what is the very essence of life?

Is life simply biological automation supplied by bio energy that the body uses to sustain its autonomy or is life the sum and substance of a being, the person, our lifeline to eternity?

There is physical life and some put forth there is also spiritual life. Spiritual life would sustain itself on spiritual energy in theory

At what point does life become spiritual?

All of this is simply supposition and the carrot at the end of the stick that lures people to adopt draconian laws and hatreds in the pursuit of divinity.

Since all creatures possess life down to the smallest of germs... it would seem life (soul) evolved before all biology could make use of it.

If life is simply automation then it is no more mysterious than a model T Ford or ceiling fan.

If life is some sort of blueprint of personhood then where is it in the body and how do we isolate life and observe life outside of the body it occupies?

It seems plausible that life (the soul) is no more than autonomy, the principle that all engines and motors use to operate and remain functioning until parts wear out and it as a whole can no longer function.

Life as it relates to the soul to me are one and the same subject.

Spirit on the other hand religious people would have us believe it to be something on a much greater scale.

Though soul and spirit are often used interchangeably let's stick to this idea for discussion sake.

Soul = animal/plant life
Spirit = Something obtained from a deity (either at birth or during the course of one's life)

If we choose to confuse the terms spirit and soul there will still underlying be the animal/plant life or some deity gift or compensation to consider regardless.

By confusing the two terms the argument does not disappear.
How can the soul be a special rebirth from God if amoebas, cows and plants and unbelievers etc. all posses this same force?

If there is a force much higher and grander than life that some refer to as spirit then what evidence do we have of the existence of this force?

While we have many Christians selling out our country to power greedy war mongers, haters, liars, election fraud racist pigs it would seem the existence of some pure and blessed "holy" spirt is nothing more than a crock of ****.

Something fake to make one feel elevated and better than others...

0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Dec, 2016 10:17 pm
@Skeleton ,
Skeleton wrote:

It's not that I try to half ass it. I'm just, I don't know, kinda cynical about it. Not sure if that's the right word. I believe God is Le supreme being, and that's what I've stuck with. You don't know how many atheists have tried to convert me, I just say **** them and do what I do. I haven't prayed in forever, but it would take probably a lobotomy to make me lose my faith. Totally never experienced a lobotomy though so I can't say that for sure.


Wow. You're all over the place.

To preface this though, I don't like to give myself potentially problematic labels, as I reserve the right to change at any time, but the closest to others understanding would be I'm an apatheist. Meaning whatever is, is, and whatever someone believes, or not is not going to change that. So, it's ultimately useless to even give it any thought. Knowing wouldn't change my life in any way.
However, for me, I care so little about it, I can't even give it a label.


That said, re-read what you've written.

By definition, doing or believing something just because it was "how you were raised" and without looking at it, ever, if half assing it. Just sayin'.

If you were cynical about it, you would be searching, asking, questioning, wondering.

I think you're a little mixed up son.

BTW, atheists don't try to "convert" anyone. How can you convert someone to a belief they don't have?

Is it that you have some sort of faith, or you just don't want to be bothered thinking about if what you believe makes any sense, or is true?

If you don't want to be bothered, that's valid, however I think it would take much less than a lobotomy to spark any sort of curiousity.

What I am curious about (not so much care about) are what caused the personality trait that would cause someone to claim nothing could change a stance that they feel so unengaged in.

What I am interested in is my living a moral ethical life.

Skeleton
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Dec, 2016 11:09 pm
@chai2,
Unengaged would be the word, not cynical. Like, I don't know. I don't really tend to show curiosity in things. I do get curious about some things, but not often. I generally show little interest in life or my job, and I seem not to care about much. My friends used to think I was borderline nihilistic. Maybe i just want something to cling to because I might really become a nihilist. I have shown tendencies for self destruction. If I didn't have faith in something better than our twisted world I'd probably say **** it and do whatever I wanted until the law put me out of my misery. Maybe there isn't something better. I don't know. I think I'm a good person, but there's a bad person in here too, I'm not going to lie about that much. All it takes is a mental breakdown and he's loose. And maybe that's why I'm so headstrong. All it takes is for my beliefs to crumble, and then I'll crumble.
0 Replies
 
Skeleton
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Dec, 2016 02:13 pm
@chai2,
Who knows, I probably would have already killed myself if I didn't believe there was a hell.
0 Replies
 
 

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