monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

Progressives hate reality. Reality keeps existing anyway.

I doubt it would be able to be proven that Trump committed a crime. However, the intention to commit a crime seems pretty clear to me.

That's the problem when the crime involves what you say, with implied threats coupled with implied attempts to get another person to change the votes...they are obvious, but implied - meaning in a court of law where you have to prove beyond reasonable doubt, and the standard of that being 'there are no other reasonable explanations for the defendants behaviour'...it is very unlikely they can prove a crime.

No impartial person listening to that tape would doubt the intent...but proving it in a court of law is another thing.

He wasn't asking for votes to be changed. He was asking for them to find lawful votes that have been unlawfully suppressed.

A reminder that Georgia performed 3 recounts and the results have already been certified multiple times by Georgia officials. The state already performed a recount as requested by the Trump campaign.

It is far too late for Trump to request another recount in the impossibly low chance that he would gain more votes.
https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-georgia-elections-4eeea3b24f10de886bcdeab6c26b680a

That's sticking your head in the sand. Trump himself offers no evidence of fraud to this most important phone call. What we do find is:

- he ignores his party's Georgia Secretary of State saying there is no evidence
- himself offers no evidence, but mentions rumour, 'I hear', and innuendo
- "Just find me 11780 votes"
- "say you've recalculated"
- plus makes multiple veiled threats
- forgets his call takers said no dominion machines had been moved (hearing what he wants to hear)
- get people who want to find answers, rather than people who don't want to find answers (rather than 'Get people with the highest integrity to do it')

The call is very, very clearly asking for votes to be 'found'. You simply won't find a clearer attempted election rigging phone call from anyone with brains.

I disagree. He clearly believes that he legitimately won and is being cheated. He is only asking to combat the cheating that he believes has happened.

That does not make it a crime for him to ask.

Anyway, let's hope the Republicans make a serious attempt to take Wisconsin's electoral votes and give them to Mr. Trump.

Then why did Trump make that phone call this past Saturday, weeks after Georgia and every other state certified the election results, after the electoral college convened, after Georgia's 3 separate recounts, and so on?

What hope does Trump have in getting several thousand more votes mere days before Congress convene on Wednesday?

If Trump wants Wisconsin's 10 electoral votes, then he can have them. Biden would still be over the 270 vote threshold.

Though, it seems unlikely Wisconsin's votes will change to Trump.

Trump is an artful gaslighter.

No he doesnt, hes really not that stupid, (prhaps hes got you under his spell but he sure aint buyin his own BS). He is afraid of his post presidency legal life. He fears financial loss and even prison.

Thats the only reason that hes continuing his entire charade, he fears "The Orange Duds Clothier".

He is an amoral critter and he is showing his worth right now by abandoning any pretenses of leadership while a US citizen dies of covid every 30 seconds. Such an evil self dealing person should NOT be given another term of office and should be repudiated by the GOP as a valid candidate in 2024

Sadly, what's going to happen is the Justice Department will launch investigations and all the bit-players will pay the price for the illegal, treasonous acts, and the malfeasance of people like Trump, his entire cabinet and all of the duds he installed in vital parts of our government....that enabled his attempt to destroy democracy.

I was with DOD during those events, and the buck never stopped with the responsible felons.

Solicitation to commit election fraud is a crime whether or not it actually happens.

no reason why he should continue with presumed impunity. He needs to feel a little under the gun. Nixon didnt get away with it.

I feel that, at lleast , Trump should become a mostly ostracized citizen. Hes a carbuncle on the ass of the body politic.

Hes certainly fooled a bunch of people, mostly older, uneducated white males.

Trump doesn't have ever appeared to have accepted defeat in his life, regardless of realities. And he clearly articulated he would not accept defeat prior to this election, declaring he had (essentially) already won prior to the election, and any loss could only be fraudulent and would be challenged in the courts. People lie to themselves all the time, and this particular scenario is quite in keeping with his never accepting defeat, and his pre-emptive statements...that is to say it is quite meaningless to say 'he clearly believes'. For him, it is essentially the same as 'he wants to believe'...

And wanting to believe something is not reason to attempt to coerce an outcome...which he is clearly attempting to do in that phone call.

If he was only trying to obtain the legitimate votes that were not given to him, then:
- he would want a conversation on solid ground (but he is relying on rumour)
- he would ask why the Georgian Secretary of State disagrees with him (but he's not interested in that)
- he would provide evidence (but he only provides rumours)
- he would ask for an actual recount, and give the basis (but he goes 'say you recounted')
- he would ask for the actual number of legitimate votes he didn't receive (instead he asks for specifically, 11780 votes)
- he would have heard them say the dominion machines weren't moved (but it wasn't what he wanted to hear)
- he would have not changed his story (after Trump said he heard rumours they'd been moved, and was told they weren't, he then said 'well what about the internals')
- he would have asked for people with a long history of proven integrity to do the recount (but he asks: 'find people who want to find answers, and not people who don't want to find answers')
- he wouldn't have threatened criminal suits against the GSOS (particularly after the GSOS says he's found no evidence. The conversation again, should have been about what evidence / information the GSOS has)

The above are behaviours of people with honest beliefs who also want to be fair and legitimate about their claims...but Trump exhibits none of those types of behaviours.

Again - it is very, very clear to me what he was trying to do.

In contrast, the GSOS seemed to be a man of integrity. He didn't back down to being threatened and bullied, he remained calm, he talked about the facts as he knew it (but wasn't further asked about them), and didn't change his story. He didn't bite on rumour mongering. He didn't seem slippery, weasley or anything. His whole decorum was one of a man of integrity - one who is intimately familiar with, and comfortable with, the actual facts.

And you apparently live in your own pocket universe, completely insulated from the real world and reality.

I thought I was clearly saying that is what he was trying to do, but that I doubt it can be proven to a criminal standard.

Everything hasn't been discovered or refuted yet. These things take a while to work out, that's why I say the better connected will have shielded themselves from prosecution and folks no one has ever heard of will be prosecuted.

Trump can plead insanity and, like Mr Vinny Giganti of the 5 FAMBLIES, he can walk around in pajamas and a dirty bathrobe acting like a looney (yet Giganti was one of the biggest crime bosses in the boroughs). That way he can convince the jury that hes got a pathological condition were he cant accept losses , even to the extent of ignoring his career choice and people around him.

I believe that once a SD case hits roots, other cases will fall in place as people(like Mr Cohen) cave. Thats how the mafia was busted up in many cities. people slowly came forward as the dangerous ones were caged

Can you imagine how the people who have lost loved ones to Covid feel, every time they hear the evil dunce saying the numbers are fake?