192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
blatham
 
  3  
Sun 19 Jan, 2020 12:44 pm
We've heard this before. Cornyn on Parnas...
Quote:
"I would be careful before crediting the veracity of somebody under indictment"


Yes, and Trump is under impeachment, you ******* imbecile.
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Sun 19 Jan, 2020 12:49 pm
@blatham,
Quote:
Yes, and Trump is under impeachment, you ******* imbecile.

He would be an imbecile if he did not know there are no grounds for impeachment and this is purely partisan politics taken to extremes by desperate dishonest people who care about nothing but power.
revelette3
 
  2  
Sun 19 Jan, 2020 12:56 pm
@blatham,
Not only that but Parnas was/is very chummy with Giuliani, good enough terms to have a very friendly picture with Trump. In fact, Giuliani is even under investigation involving Parnas. They just have a very convenient nerve and what's worse, get away with it by stupid dupes.

https://nypost.com/2019/10/11/rudy-giulianis-relationship-with-associates-subject-of-criminal-investigation-report/
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Sun 19 Jan, 2020 12:58 pm
@coldjoint,
You may have noticed that trump cares about nothing but power himself, and is willing to break any laws that get in is way. He has done so. that's why he's being impeached and why, if there were any gop senators that had an ounce of independent thought between them, he would be convicted and removed from office. the country does not like crooks in office.
coldjoint
 
  0  
Sun 19 Jan, 2020 01:03 pm
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
is willing to break any laws that get in is way. He has done so.

What laws has he broken? Section and code please? If not, stop repeating lies. Trump has been accused, that is not a conviction.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Sun 19 Jan, 2020 01:04 pm
Quote:
Sound the trumpets: 20th Century Fox, a name and klieg-lit logo that stretches back 85 years in Hollywood, is dropping the word Fox, a move that may prevent consumers from mistakenly thinking the movie studio has anything to do with Rupert Murdoch’s polarizing Fox News media empire.
NYT
Not surprising that Disney would make this move. But this reporter is showing typical cowardice in describing the rationale as a concern that Fox is "polarizing". That ain't the problem. The problem is that Fox is broadly recognized as a propaganda operation which has probably done more damage to American political discourse and civility than any other single entity in our lifetimes.
revelette3
 
  2  
Sun 19 Jan, 2020 01:04 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Well, there are many British tourists in continental Europe - and driving there. (We still have around 20,000 British military personals and their families where I live.)


Understood. Still, there could be someone like me in the UK who has never went anywhere but the country she lives who all the sudden decides to take a tour of the US and rents a car and drives on the wrong the side of the road. It just makes sense to have a little driving awareness or something before renting a car in another country. But maybe not, I am not wedded to the idea.
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Sun 19 Jan, 2020 01:06 pm
@blatham,
Quote:
The problem is that Fox is broadly recognized as a propaganda operation which has probably done more damage to American political discourse and civility than any other single entity in our lifetimes.

Laughing Laughing Laughing
All Fox has done is prove there are two sides to every story. And they have proven the MSM lies a lot while they were at it.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Sun 19 Jan, 2020 01:07 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

This, of course, has been Trump's propaganda line from the beginning as a means of invalidating any criticism of his actions, words and his administration. But obviously it is an "argument" or charge that can be wielded any time impeachment proceedings begin regardless of circumstances.


Your self-serving and deceptive statement that such charges can be made even in the absence of merit is merely a tautology, and without logical merit regarding the issue. ( Was this an example of your professed "logical rigor"?)

I believe the argument gets a bit stronger when one recognizes the impeachment efforts began soon after Trump took office and have continued with so far unproductive and highly one-sided investigations since then, Even more indicative is the evident fact that the Impeachment was voted in the House exclusively by Democrat Legislators - a totally partisan thing, and a stark contrast to previous impeachment proceedings.
blatham
 
  1  
Sun 19 Jan, 2020 01:15 pm
@revelette3,
Quote:
Not only that but Parnas was/is very chummy with Giuliani, good enough terms to have a very friendly picture with Trump.
And each of his kids and most of his cabinet and many senior Republicans and Kellyanne Conway and Sarah Sanders... and and and...

One could credibly argue that Parnas put himself in these photo situations to build up his own reputation as a big wig. But this would be to ignore all the private dinners and meetings Parnas had with Trump Jr, Giuliani and others close to Trump and all the communications between these people.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Sun 19 Jan, 2020 01:25 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:
this reporter is showing typical cowardice in describing the rationale as a concern that Fox is "polarizing". That ain't the problem. The problem is that Fox is broadly recognized as a propaganda operation which has probably done more damage to American political discourse and civility than any other single entity in our lifetimes.

In other words, progressives hate anyone who disagrees with them.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Sun 19 Jan, 2020 01:26 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
You may have noticed that trump cares about nothing but power himself, and is willing to break any laws that get in is way. He has done so.

Got any proof of his alleged lawbreaking?


MontereyJack wrote:
that's why he's being impeached and why,

He is being impeached because Democrats abuse the law to conduct witch hunts against people who disagree with them.


MontereyJack wrote:
if there were any gop senators that had an ounce of independent thought between them, he would be convicted and removed from office.

Progressives' tendency to equate "supporting their witch hunts" with "independent thought" is pretty silly.


MontereyJack wrote:
the country does not like crooks in office.

Progressives believe that they should be above the law, and actually like the idea of lawbreaking by progressive political leaders.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Sun 19 Jan, 2020 01:26 pm
@blatham,
Quote:
But this would be to ignore all the private dinners and meetings Parnas had with Trump Jr, Giuliani and others close to Trump and all the communications between these people.

How many dinners and meetings? Source your information. The only choice I have is you are lying again.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Sun 19 Jan, 2020 01:33 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Your self-serving and deceptive statement that such charges can be made even in the absence of merit is merely a tautology, and without logical merit regarding the issue. ( Was this an example of your professed "logical rigor"?)

First, the point was a simple one - any opponents to an impeachment proceeding can make the charge that the proceeding is an instance of a sneaky coup d'etat motivated merely to remove a sitting president deemed (by those making the charge) as illegitimate.

Second, Trump has very clearly used this line from the day after his inauguration and he's used it to describe any/all criticism from the press or anyone else since that day.

But your claim there that these charges are without merit are echoed on Fox and other such outlets and that's where you've been feeding. You won't be swayed because you can't allow such a review of your fixed ideas. Many Republicans with far greater knowledge and experience of government and this adminstration than you have are not on your side. I've quoted only some of those voices here. I'll try to quote more for you. But you won't be moved, will you?

Quote:
I believe the argument gets a bit stronger when one recognizes the impeachment efforts began soon after Trump took office and have continued with so far unproductive and highly one-sided investigations since then

That's another Fox line, repeated daily in the time-tested pattern Goebbels gifted us with. But it's bullshit, george. You can prove me wrong if you present some actual instances, quotations, whatever to bolster your claim that impeachment efforts were underway at that point in time. Please do so.

Edit:
Quote:
Even more indicative is the evident fact that the Impeachment was voted in the House exclusively by Democrat Legislators - a totally partisan thing, and a stark contrast to previous impeachment proceedings.

This is such a stupid argument (and again, a constant right wing talking point). All that is needed for this outcome is very strict adherence to tribal identity. That's it.

oralloy
 
  -3  
Sun 19 Jan, 2020 01:38 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:
You can prove me wrong if you present some actual instances, quotations, whatever to bolster your claim that impeachment efforts were underway at that point in time.

The witch hunt against Mr. Trump on February 15, 2017:

https://www.blumenthal.senate.gov/newsroom/press/release/senators-call-for-independent-prosecutor-to-investigate-trump-officials-collusion-with-russia-and-apparent-white-house-cover-up

https://www.markey.senate.gov/news/press-releases/senators-call-for-independent-prosecutor-to-investigate-trump-officials-collusion-with-russia-and-apparent-white-house-cover-up


The witch hunt against Mr. Trump on March 2, 2017:

https://www.democrats.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/schumer-calls-for-attorney-general-sessions-to-resign-outlines-three-critical-steps-to-ensure-integrity-of-investigation-into-ties-between-president-trumps-campaign-officials-and-russia
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  2  
Sun 19 Jan, 2020 01:57 pm
@MontereyJack,
If the country don't like crooks why would an electorate who had 1 working brain cell elect someone who is has Been and is still a crook?
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  4  
Sun 19 Jan, 2020 02:22 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
I believe the argument gets a bit stronger when one recognizes the impeachment efforts began soon after Trump took office...

This is untrue. Was there talk about the possibility of removing him from office? Yes. CBC/Radio Canada even had an "impeach-o-meter" assessing the likelihood of this happening. But this wasn't because of the close election. It was because people deemed him coarse, divisive, and generally unsuitable for the office. Any hopes that the office itself might lift and transform him were dashed when he started lying about the size of the crowds at his inauguration. It quickly became obvious what sort of ruler (not leader) he intended to be. So yes, it wasn't long after he took office that there was impeachment speculation but no "impeachment efforts" took place until his hamfisted attempt to shakedown President Zelensky became known.

There's nothing to prevent people from speculating on impeaching a chief executive:
Quote:
During Barack Obama's tenure as President of the United States from 2009 to 2017, certain Republican members of Congress, as well as Democratic congressman Dennis Kucinich,stated that Obama had engaged in impeachable activity and that he might face attempts to remove him from office. Rationales offered for possible impeachment included false claims that Obama was born outside the United States, that he allegedly allowed people to use bathrooms based on their gender identity, an alleged White House cover-up after the 2012 Benghazi attack, and failure to enforce immigration laws. No list of articles of impeachment was ever drawn up and proposed to the Judiciary Committee.

Multiple surveys of U.S. public opinion found that the clear majority of Americans rejected the idea of impeaching Obama, while a majority of Republicans were in favor; for example, CNN found in July 2014 that 57% of Republicans supported these efforts while about two thirds of adult Americans in general disagreed with them.

wikipedia
You had your chance —I think you guys are just jealous!
oralloy
 
  -2  
Sun 19 Jan, 2020 02:37 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
This is untrue. Was there talk about the possibility of removing him from office? Yes. CBC/Radio Canada even had an "impeach-o-meter" assessing the likelihood of this happening. But this wasn't because of the close election. It was because people deemed him coarse, divisive, and generally unsuitable for the office.

Quibbling over the reason why Democrats were trying to lynch him does not change the fact that Democrats were trying to lynch him.


hightor wrote:
Any hopes that the office itself might lift and transform him were dashed when he started lying about the size of the crowds at his inauguration.

He was only responding to the media's lies about the size of the crowd.


hightor wrote:
So yes, it wasn't long after he took office that there was impeachment speculation but no "impeachment efforts" took place until his hamfisted attempt to shakedown President Zelensky became known.

That is incorrect. The Democrats were in full witch hunt mode within a month of him taking office.


Quote:
Multiple surveys of U.S. public opinion found that the clear majority of Americans rejected the idea of impeaching Obama, while a majority of Republicans were in favor; for example, CNN found in July 2014 that 57% of Republicans supported these efforts while about two thirds of adult Americans in general disagreed with them.

It may be a number of decades before we have a Democratic president again, but once it happens there will be a lot more Republican support for impeaching him or her.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  3  
Sun 19 Jan, 2020 02:42 pm
Imagine...
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Sun 19 Jan, 2020 03:05 pm
@hightor,
In 2013, Ed Meese suggested that Obama was impeachable if he took action on gun control

And then there is this meeting which, though not noted here, I believe included Meese in some role I can't recall. But his presence or not is not terribly relevant.
Quote:
Democrats have rounded on revelations about a private dinner of House Republicans on inauguration day in 2009 in which they plotted a campaign of obstruction against newly installed president Barack Obama.

During a lengthy discussion, the senior GOP members worked out a plan to repeatedly block Obama over the coming four years to try to ensure he would not be re-elected.

The disclosures – described as "appalling and sad" by Obama's chief strategist David Axelrod – undermine Republican claims that the president alone is to blame for the partisan deadlock in Washington.

A detailed account of who was present at the dinner on that January 20 night and the plan they worked out to bring down Obama is provided by Robert Draper in 'Do Not Ask What Good We Do: Inside the US House of Representatives', published this week.

In his book, Draper opens with the heady atmosphere in Washington on the days running up to the inauguration and the day itself, which attracted 1.8 million to the mall to witness Obama being sworn in as America's first black president.

Those numbers contributed to a growing sense of unease among Republicans as much the defeat in the White House race the previous November. The 15 Republicans were in a sombre mood as they gathered at the Caucus Room in Washington, an upscale restaurant where a New York strip steak costs $51.

Attending the dinner were House members Eric Cantor, Jeb Hensarling, Pete Hoekstra, Dan Lungren, Kevin McCarthy, Paul Ryan and Pete Sessions. From the Senate were Tom Coburn, Bob Corker, Jim DeMint, John Ensign and Jon Kyl. Others present were former House Speaker and future – and failed – presidential candidate Newt Gingrich and the Republican strategist Frank Luntz, who organised the dinner and sent out the invitations.

The dinner table was set in a square at Luntz's request so everyone could see one another and talk freely. The session lasted four hours and by the end the sombre mood had lifted: they had conceived a plan. They would take back the House in November 2010, which they did, and use it as a spear to mortally wound Obama in 2011 and take back the Senate and White House in 2012, Draper writes.

"If you act like you're the minority, you're going to stay in the minority," said Keven McCarthy, quoted by Draper. "We've gotta challenge them on every single bill and challenge them on every single campaign."

The Republicans have done that, bringing Washington to a near standstill several times during Obama's first term over debt and other issues.

On the more immediate future, they discussed targets such as Charlie Rangel, chairman of the House ways and means committee, who Gingrich said was vulnerable over his personal taxes. They would also target Treasury secretary Tim Geithner, demonstrate united and unyielding opposition to the president's economic policies, and release negative ads against vulnerable Democratic members of Congress.

Draper quotes Gingrich at the end of the meal: "You will remember this day. You'll remember this as the day the seeds of 2012 were sown."


As I've said before and as is utterly transparent, the GOP cares only about gaining and maintaining power. Bi-partisanship... ha ha ha.
 

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