192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
coldjoint
 
  1  
Sun 30 Jun, 2019 08:04 pm
https://i1.wp.com/www.bookwormroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Stupid-Leftists-an-honest-Facebook-removal-notice.jpg?resize=882%2C784
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  -3  
Mon 1 Jul, 2019 03:26 am
@Lash,
It sounds like you're trying to let Trump off the hook by only telling part of the story.

The current policy of separating children from their parents is Trump's, nobody else's.

I get the feeling that if Trump were to start sacrificing children to Satan live from the Whitehouse you'd still find a way of blaming Obama.

And if Mr Sanders does secure the Democrat nomination you'll soon come up with an excuse for attacking him for not being pure enough. Let's face it Jesus wouldn't be pure enough for you.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Mon 1 Jul, 2019 04:22 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
You do know Obama built and used those cages, right?

I didn't know Obama was such a skilled metal worker! But the circumstances were such that his administration could not avoid it.

Quote:
At the time, the Obama administration had been struggling to manage a major influx in unaccompanied Central American children arriving at the US-Mexico border.

As one former Obama official explained, "We didn't have enough shelter facilities, because we had a huge increase, so kids ended up piling up in Border Patrol lock-ups, which are no places for children."
snood
 
  1  
Mon 1 Jul, 2019 05:19 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

It sounds like you're trying to let Trump off the hook by only telling part of the story.

The current policy of separating children from their parents is Trump's, nobody else's.

I get the feeling that if Trump were to start sacrificing children to Satan live from the Whitehouse you'd still find a way of blaming Obama.

And if Mr Sanders does secure the Democrat nomination you'll soon come up with an excuse for attacking him for not being pure enough. Let's face it Jesus wouldn't be pure enough for you.

No, she will never see or admit Saint Bernie’s faults. That would take some of the righteous fervor out of her never ending attacks on the actual democrats who oppose him in the primaries now, and who will be his allies should he win.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Mon 1 Jul, 2019 05:55 am
@izzythepush,
Just take a sec to look at your post.
That’s a wildly hyperbolic response to a mild, unemotional reminder that Obama used this same infrastructure. You know, he also deported many more people than Trump has.

I think this shouldn’t be forgotten.

It doesn’t absolve Trump of anything. It seems Obama, not Bernie, is the one held up as pristine and faultless.

There’s no reason to disagree.
Lash
 
  0  
Mon 1 Jul, 2019 05:56 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Lash wrote:
You do know Obama built and used those cages, right?

I didn't know Obama was such a skilled metal worker! But the circumstances were such that his administration could not avoid it.

Quote:
At the time, the Obama administration had been struggling to manage a major influx in unaccompanied Central American children arriving at the US-Mexico border.

As one former Obama official explained, "We didn't have enough shelter facilities, because we had a huge increase, so kids ended up piling up in Border Patrol lock-ups, which are no places for children."


Exactly. This is the same problem Trump is dealing with.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 1 Jul, 2019 06:37 am
@Lash,
Olivier5 wrote:
Quote:
unaccompanied Central American children arriving at the US-Mexico border.


Lash wrote:
Exactly. This is the same problem Trump is dealing with.
And where are the accompanied children? With there parents?
oristarA
 
  1  
Mon 1 Jul, 2019 06:48 am
Jimmy Carter has been kind to Trump. He ever criticized media for being too harsh to Trump. And now, see what he says about Trump:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-REgnWUIAAZZMi.jpg
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  1  
Mon 1 Jul, 2019 06:52 am
@Lash,
Quote:
You know, he also deported many more people than Trump has.

But that isn't a bad thing, in and of itself. This article is from Dec 2017 and while it's a bit dated, it offers a good comparison between the deportation activities of the two administrations.
Quote:
There are, broadly speaking, two kinds of deportation: those which kick people out of the country quickly for getting caught crossing the US-Mexican border, and those which round up people who are already living in the United States—the “interior.” One big reason for the decrease in deportations is that fewer people are crossing into the country from Mexico. That pool of easy stat-boosters had already been drying up under Obama, and it continues to decline—though in its end-of-year report, ICE claimed that the trend could reflect “an increased deterrent effect” from the agency’s “stronger interior enforcement efforts.”

If one looks only at what are called “interior removals,” Trump has deported more people than Obama did in his final two years. In fact, in his first eight months in office, Trump deported 61,094 people from the interior, 37 percent more than Obama did in the same period in 2016.

ICE arrests are also up under Trump. Between his inauguration and September 30, ICE arrested 42 percent more people for immigration violations than it did over the same period in the previous year. Immigration-court backlogs are key to understanding why Trump’s deportation numbers aren’t even higher: If a person has lived in the country for more than two years and has not been previously subject to a deportation order, they’re entitled to a hearing before an immigration judge. Processing those cases takes time.

As it is, Trump has authorized his agents to do things that other administrations declined to do. Obama said that he was focused on removing “felons, not families.” These days, anyone who’s deportable—from restaurant-owning, decades-long residents to DACA-approved Dreamers—is a priority. ICE is now willing to arrest people with no criminal record, people who are guilty only of immigration violations. Even ICE’s gang-enforcement operations—designed, supposedly, to capture the most hardened criminals—have netted a disturbing number of people with no criminal record. It’s an unleashing that, to immigrants, feels like a kind of terrorism.

To make matters worse, ICE agents stalk places that were once no-go areas for apprehending immigrants: churches, courthouses, even school drop-off sites. In November, dozens of public defenders gathered for an impromptu protest outside a Brooklyn courthouse just after ICE a gents arrested a man who had shown up at court. That arrest was one of approximately 40 such incidents in 2017 in New York City alone—a 900 percent increase compared with last year, according to the Immigrant Defense Project. Lawyers and judges have reported similar activity in Arizona, California, Connecticut, Colorado, New Jersey, Oregon, Texas, Washington, and the rest of New York State. Denver City Attorney Kristin Bronson said that she’s given up on four domestic-violence cases since Trump’s election, because the victims were too afraid that ICE would be lurking to appear in court.

Trump has also invited the public to get involved in the process of nabbing immigrants. This year, the administration set up a hotline called VOICE (Victims of Immigration Crime Engagement), supposedly to provide services to the victims of crimes perpetrated by “removable aliens.” But an investigative report by Splinter found that the hotline was being used by people to settle family scores—one caller reported his stepson, another his mother- and sister-in-law, a third his ex-wife, and a fourth her granddaughter’s boyfriend—as well as to report suspected undocumented workers at various businesses and, in one case, people using EBT cards.

The Trump administration has given no indication that it plans to slow down in these efforts. As of May 2016, there were more than 900,000 people with final deportation orders living in the United States. And those people have no right to see a judge; court backlogs will not delay their removal. As soon as ICE can get its hands on them and make the travel arrangements, they will be deported.

There are only so many ICE agents, and only so many immigration judges, and only so many detention beds. It’s not quite clear what the upper limit on deportations might be. But the total number of deportations is clearly not the most important metric for gauging the harshness of a president’s immigration policies.

thenation

0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Mon 1 Jul, 2019 07:01 am
@Walter Hinteler,
You and I don’t really know who is accompanied by a parent and who is accompanied by someone else.

We do all know that the idea of children being taken away from their parents is horrifying.

These people we don’t know with children we aren’t sure belong to them at our border should stop. I like the idea of a smarter, safer immigration process. We’re incapable of safely handling millions of people in varying degrees of health, showing up unknown en masse.

The idea of going through the application process on the other side of the border is a much better idea.

As Obama’s response showed, and as the numbers of immigrants is multiplying currently, a better policy is mandatory. It’s definitely not working as is.

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 1 Jul, 2019 07:13 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
The idea of going through the application process on the other side of the border is a much better idea.
An asylum seeker is someone who is protection from dangers in his or her home country.

I think that asylum seekers must apply for protection in the country of destination - that is, they must arrive at or cross a border in order to apply.

This said, I add that I don't understand why USAmericans don't differ between migrants, asylum seekers, refugees and immigrants.
Lash
 
  0  
Mon 1 Jul, 2019 07:16 am
It’s my opinion that it’s a healthy practice to look at issues with clear eyes and unbiased thinking, rather than a completely politicized view.

Our policy must change.

Hightor’s piece just seemed like a political defense of Obama/ democrats.

Here’s a different source.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.axios.com/immigration-ice-deportation-trump-obama-a72a0a44-540d-46bc-a671-cd65cf72f4b1.html

Trump isn't matching Obama deportation numbers
Immigration and Customs Enforcement has deported more immigrants this fiscal year than any full fiscal year of Donald Trump's presidency, but it has yet to reach Barack Obama's early deportation levels, according to new internal Department of Homeland Security figures obtained by Axios.

Why it matters: With four months left in the fiscal year, it puts Trump's deportations in perspective and shows the reality behind the anti-immigrant pledges that have come to define his presidency.

By the numbers: Under the Obama administration, total ICE deportations were above 385,000 each year in fiscal years 2009-2011, and hit a high of 409,849 in fiscal 2012. The numbers dropped to below 250,000 in fiscal years 2015 and 2016.

Under Trump, ICE deportations fell to 226,119 in fiscal 2017, then ticked up to over 250,000 in fiscal 2018 and hit a Trump administration high of 282,242 this fiscal year (as of June).
ICE and DHS didn't respond to a request for comment.
State of play: Trump kicked off his 2020 campaign with a familiar pledge to deport millions of unauthorized immigrants in the U.S., and announced that ICE will begin a series of raids across the country next week.

Yes, but: Such a pledge is ambitious given the current pressures on the agency and its limited resources. As the AP points out, ICE is "already overwhelmed, lacking staff, funding and detention space for its current work. And any massive roundup that includes deportation of families would be sure to spark outrage."

——————————————————
The situation is a disaster.
Lash
 
  0  
Mon 1 Jul, 2019 07:18 am
@Walter Hinteler,
We have to change that law. Our border is overwhelmed. We can’t be held accountable for the illnesses, safety, housing, clothing, etc for millions of people.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 1 Jul, 2019 07:36 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
We have to change that law. Our border is overwhelmed. We can’t be held accountable for the illnesses, safety, housing, clothing, etc for millions of people.
What law? (The United States recognises the right of asylum of individuals as specified by international [and federal] law.)

Giving a person asylum doesn't mean that one country is accountable for the protected grounds (race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or particular social group) of another country.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Mon 1 Jul, 2019 07:48 am
@Lash,
Quote:
It’s my opinion that it’s a healthy practice to look at issues with clear eyes and unbiased thinking, rather than a completely politicized view. 

It's my opinion too, which is precisely why I think people uncritically parroting Trump ("Obama built those cages") can't be mentally healthy.
Lash
 
  0  
Mon 1 Jul, 2019 07:53 am
@Olivier5,
I’ll take your word that Trump said it, too.
I said it because it’s a fact.
Arguing with facts because you don’t like who said them can’t be mentally healthy.
Lash
 
  0  
Mon 1 Jul, 2019 07:54 am
@Walter Hinteler,
We have options.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1158

We need to use them.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 1 Jul, 2019 08:00 am
@Lash,
Okay with me. But you previously said that "We have to change that law".
And that's something totally different.
Lash
 
  0  
Mon 1 Jul, 2019 08:05 am
Protesters in Hong Kong have broken into the city’s legislative building, hung a Union Jack (colonial flag?) over a desk, and cops are standing down.

👏🏻 Solidarity with the people!!!
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Mon 1 Jul, 2019 08:08 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I might be wrong about this particular fact being a law—I’ll try to find it—but law or custom, when the foot of an asylum seeker hits American soil, they must be awarded asylum.

I believe this compels a lot of dangerous journeys. I’ll have to verify this.
 

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