192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
coldjoint
 
  0  
Sat 30 Mar, 2019 12:00 pm
@revelette1,
Quote:
I guess crooked minds think alike.

At least they think. A little more than you can say for the people who engineered the Russian bust. Shocked
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  0  
Sat 30 Mar, 2019 12:04 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

I agree that fences and other like barriers aren't the best solution to floods of such refugees. However in a situation in which the law forbids the obvious, and relatively simple solution of simply returning unauthorized entrants who illegally cross the border, or who are subsequently found living here; and in which various cities and states forbid any coordination with border and immigration control, it may be the best (or only) available solution. Such enforcement would quickly be observed by potential immigrants and end the floods approaching our borders - just as the absence of any such enforcement visibly encourages them.

No, traffickers want their mules returned to them so they can send them back with more drugs. Yes, it is convenient to keep people in various areas to function as part of broader trafficking networks, but just sending people back to those who trafficked them doesn't solve the problem.

Somehow you have to detain people for long enough to confiscate drug shipments, often carried in internally-swallowed balloons. This might require some form of bathroom surveillance that prevents people from re-swallowing what they pass while in custody; e.g. some kind of automated toilet that registers problems like weight-changes when a drug balloon is fished out of a toilet and re-swallowed.

Quote:
Most of the available data indicates world population will peak and likely start declining in a few decades as the spread of more modern lifestyles continues to steadily reduce female fertility statistics around the world, including India, Africa and the Arab countries. This phenomenon is well advanced in Europe, and to a lesser extent, in the U.S. and China. It is already detectably underway in India, Africa and the Arab world.

That would happen if there weren't economic interests that seek to maintain slaving populations of people who will work cheaply in jobs that people in developed economies don't want, such as agriculture, illegal drug trafficking, prostitution, low-wage factory labor, etc.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Sat 30 Mar, 2019 12:06 pm
@georgeob1,
I would like to point out, however, that Ehrlich's Population Bomb was very influential. It lead significant numbers of men to get vasectomies in India and other third world countries, and making Westerners aware of the consequences of overpopulation very likely led to many couples adopting family planning. In other words, helping to make people aware of the problem slowed population growth for a decade or two. Lower infant mortality rates and marginally improving economies sparked the current population boom in Africa, which is why I made the point about rising populations in areas of the world that can least afford them. You mention declining rates of fertility in Africa and the Arab world but the bomb has already been detonated — the increase in population over the past two decades means that even if modest steps to control population growth are employed, the number of births will still threaten economic and civil stability.

I know that there have been kooks preaching about the end of the world practically forever. (And of course, it's not the "world" that ends, just our privileged place in it.) But, unless you totally reject the idea of greenhouse gases leading to planetary warming, you can see that we're talking about real changes in weather patterns and sea levels, extremely disruptive to agriculture and the huge population of people who live in coastal areas and flood plains.

Quote:
I do not accept the notion of "ecocide", or that of mass guilt resulting from it...

Ecocide isn't a moral concept, it just refers to the destruction of natural ecosystems. I can understand it generating mass concern but "mass guilt" doesn't seem like a very constructive reaction.

Quote:
A common element of these Malthusian fantasies is the supposed continued exponential growth of whatever is feared (Population, the disappearance of food, fuel, metals and other essentials, or more recently global warming.

I do respect your experience in your field. But there are non-renewable resources which we are in danger of losing (or their cost will become prohibitive). Phosphates for fertilizer, sand for concrete, and in some areas, fresh water — millions of gallons of water are used in hydrofracture, mixed with toxic chemicals. and pumped underground...forever. So when people discount the idea of "Peak Oil" they might want to consider the destructive effects of our efforts to avoid it.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Sat 30 Mar, 2019 12:51 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

…. But there are non-renewable resources which we are in danger of losing (or their cost will become prohibitive). Phosphates for fertilizer, sand for concrete, and in some areas, fresh water — millions of gallons of water are used in hydrofracture, mixed with toxic chemicals. and pumped underground...forever. So when people discount the idea of "Peak Oil" they might want to consider the destructive effects of our efforts to avoid it.


There is no new approaching crisis for sand, phosphates or even water. Economic costs change and human ingenuity almost always yields an effective solution. Sand suitable for concrete is abundant in the world - some new transport costs may be required in some areas, but that's it. Same goes for phosphorous which is an abundant element in the earth's crust.
To some degree water has always been a scarce resource in some areas. However there too, human ingenuity prevails. Thousands of years ago Persians developed underground aqueducts ("Quants" ) to transport water in semi arid areas (and eliminate evaporation enroute) to enable intense agricultural production in large areas that are barren today.
Groundwater is readily, and economically, accessible ( even with 3000 ft. deep wells), and much of the fracking water will be recoverable. Correcting the excessive diversion of rainwater runoff due to widespread pavement is a problem that, in addition, exacerbates urban floods i, but even there new building techniques and codes are being found to include very effective runoff settlement zones.
Our management of water resources however leaves something to be desired. California requires the discharge of High Sierra snowmelt into the ocean to protect a non native species of smelt in the Sacramento river delta - and deprives the richest agricultural area in the world of needed water as a result. Interestingly the construction of new catchments for the storage of runoff is proceeding very effectively in the Midwest, while California hasn't invested in water retention projects (or electrical power plants) for several decades - despite a near doubling of the population.
Setanta
 
  3  
Sat 30 Mar, 2019 12:59 pm
Declines in fertility in the industrial world have been declines in male fertility, as disturbing to George as this may be. That does not, however, equate with any significant decline in population growth rates in Africa or southwest Asia. Quite apart from that, the growth in refugees attempting to reach Europe and North America comes primarily from economic refugees, refugees from war and refugees from brutal regimes which employ rape and murder to terrorize their populations.

Meanwhile, we are busily destroying ecosystems with our business as usual agricultural practices. Soybeans are grown to produce vegetable oil (no matter what the vegan propaganda may say), and soybean production by industrial agricultural methods is destroying ponds and lakes, streams and rivers. The Illinois River is dying--that is, if it's not already dead, I've not seen it recently. In the late 1980s, I saw Aquia Creek in Stafford County, Virginia, and the surface was bright green with tiny aquatic plants. That plant "bloom" came from agricultural run-off of fertilizer, and it blocks sunlight, killing the normal aquatic plant life, and destroys the environment for fish in the waterway. Silt from the run-off of soybean fields has a similar effect. That's what's killing the Illinois River, which has a slow current, and therefore can't carry off the silt from soybean production.

Soybeans are grown with "clean row cropping," which means heavy reliance on herbicides, another chemical pollutant in our waterways as well as being the cause of just about the greatest source of wind and water erosion. The heavy use of pesticides and chemical fertilizers completes the picture. This is from Fredericksburg-dot-com, in an article entitled More state rivers, lakes impaired by pollution:

Quote:
Virginia's rivers, lakes and streams, including many in the Fredericksburg area, are facing a growing threat from pollution.

That's according to the latest "impaired waters" report by the Virginia Department of Environmental Quality.

The draft report, updated every two years, contains a six-year water quality assessment and a statewide list of impaired waters.

and

In a statement yesterday, the Chesapeake Bay Foundation said the report demonstrates that state waters and the bay are "still under siege" and that cleanup efforts must stay on track.

The data, "should alarm all who value clean water, public health and a vibrant economy," CBF Senior Scientist Mike Gerel said.

"Virginia simply must take more aggressive steps to reduce pollution, especially pollution running off farms, streets and parking lots."


This can be seen all over the country, and right around the world. Band aid solutions are already too late. Fat cat capitalists whining about regulation, if they even have anything to say at all, are cases of special pleading for the right to chase their puerile greed no matter the consequences for the human race, and the planet. It may already be too late. There is evidence that the partial pressure of oxygen in the ambient atmosphere is declining, and declining more rapidly than in the past. It's about 21% now, and we can get by with about 19.5%--so the capitalist fat cats can party on down, as long as they don't have grandchildren, or don't give a rat's ass about them.

Really, this is just a loud, la-la-la-la, I can't hear your performance from greedy right wingers who don't want to see their energy industry and agricultural industry dividends decline.
coldjoint
 
  1  
Sat 30 Mar, 2019 01:02 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
Meanwhile, we are busily destroying ecosystems with our business as usual agricultural practices.

As opposed to ruining the greatest system of government ever created. I'll take GMO before we leave the world to totalitarians and Islamists. I do not know if we can save the wonder babies from drowning in their own tears, or if they are even worth saving.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Sat 30 Mar, 2019 01:07 pm
Typical CJ stupidity--in no part of my post did I mention genetically modified organisms. Try to keep up, 'K?
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  2  
Sat 30 Mar, 2019 01:10 pm
@Setanta,
I live near the Illinois river and your right, it is mostly dead.
livinglava
 
  1  
Sat 30 Mar, 2019 01:11 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

There is no new approaching crisis for sand, phosphates or even water. Economic costs change and human ingenuity almost always yields an effective solution. Sand suitable for concrete is abundant in the world - some new transport costs may be required in some areas, but that's it. Same goes for phosphorous which is an abundant element in the earth's crust.

You don't understand the Earth as a limited energy system, do you? You think humans can just find as much energy as they need and do anything they want and fix whatever problems occur artificially. That would be like trying to replace every system of your body with robotic prostheses and expecting to survive and live sustainably.

Artificial systems wear out and break down, even when you maintain them mechanically. You have to build new machines and systems, and those gradually wear out and also need replacement. Nature is the only system we have that has been tested for sustainability over periods of time longer than the existence of humans or any other animal as a species.

Quote:
To some degree water has always been a scarce resource in some areas. However there too, human ingenuity prevails. Thousands of years ago Persians developed underground aqueducts ("Quants" ) to transport water in semi arid areas (and eliminate evaporation enroute) to enable intense agricultural production in large areas that are barren today.

Groundwater is readily, and economically, accessible ( even with 3000 ft. deep wells), and much of the fracking water will be recoverable. Correcting the excessive diversion of rainwater runoff due to widespread pavement is a problem that, in addition, exacerbates urban floods i, but even there new building techniques and codes are being found to include very effective runoff settlement zones.
Our management of water resources however leaves something to be desired. California requires the discharge of High Sierra snowmelt into the ocean to protect a non native species of smelt in the Sacramento river delta - and deprives the richest agricultural area in the world of needed water as a result. Interestingly the construction of new catchments for the storage of runoff is proceeding very effectively in the Midwest, while California hasn't invested in water retention projects (or electrical power plants) for several decades - despite a near doubling of the population.

Try a thought-experiment: Imagine building a desalination system that catches salt water from ocean tides and allows water to evaporate off into pipes to make fresh water, which is then pumped uphill to whomever wants it.

Now compare that with what nature does in terms of evaporating water off the ocean and moving it around as clouds, which then precipitate down over land to replenish watersheds and aquifers.

Why is the natural system insufficient for human needs? If there is abundant fresh water, why does it need to be pumped through pipes, etc. instead of humans simply going to harvest it from the natural pathways it travels through?

Why can't we just use natural waterways more efficiently and with less pollution than re-engineering them to allow people to be lazy and waste/pollute their water supplies?

We keep trying to solve the problems we cause by cleaning up the messes instead of identifying the causes of the messes before they occur in the first place.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Sat 30 Mar, 2019 01:13 pm
@georgeob1,
Not a rebuttal, just sharing some stories in the news to boost my credibility:

Phosphorus is not a renewable resource

Quote:
Reserves are limited and not equally spread over the planet. The only large mines are located in Morocco, Russia, China and the US. Depending on which scientists you ask, the world's phosphate rock reserves will last for another 35 to 400 years – though the more optimistic assessments rely on the discovery of new deposits.


Report Warns of Global Sand Shortage

Quote:
Like anything that has a finite supply, sand market cost is increasing. This means that besides supply/demand economics attached to the huge quantities of sand being used - Singapore is the world's largest importer - criminal gangs are stealing sand in countries ranging from Jamaica to Nigeria. India even has a sand mafia, known for its ruthlessness.


Climate change threatens U.K. with fresh water shortage within 25 years

Quote:
The U.K. may be known for its gray skies and near-constant drizzle, but the head of the island nation's environment agency has warned that it could run out of fresh water within 25 years.


The problem with nonrenewable resources is not that we'll run out of them so much as that they will become prohibitively expensive. That usually leads to conflict and strife.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sat 30 Mar, 2019 01:26 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Declines in fertility in the industrial world have been declines in male fertility, as disturbing to George as this may be. That does not, however, equate with any significant decline in population growth rates in Africa or southwest Asia. .


As I'm sure Seanta knows, It's the females who have the babies. In any event the abundant statistical data is usually expressed in average births per female, which is the usual statistical definition of female fertility ( or male fertility for that matter) . It is indeed declining fairly fast in Africa, Asia and the Arab countries just as I wrote. It will take several decades for this to emerge as a decline in population, but that is inevitable.

The problems of emigration are solvable, though Europe and the United States are paralyzed from action by nonsensical, soft headed thinking. The cures for slow economic growth and government oppression in other countries are to be found within those countries themselves, and obvious incentives for implementing those solutions should be implemented. Merely providing a safety valve for them only delays the solution.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Sat 30 Mar, 2019 01:27 pm
@RABEL222,
Yeah, I figured, but I had not seen it recently.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sat 30 Mar, 2019 01:32 pm
@hightor,
Sounds to me like "Peak Oil" revisited. The next time you take a cross country flight look out the window while you're between the Rockies and the high Sierra of California - lots of sand out there. There are indeed preferred types of sand that make concrete production easier and cheaper, but there are many other effective sources. This is merely an economic problem involving currently competitive costs and current methods. Necessity remains the mother of invention, and new sources and new methods will be found. Nearly everything in human history testifies to that.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  0  
Sat 30 Mar, 2019 01:45 pm
https://i1.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2019/03/IMG_9674.jpg?resize=600%2C350&ssl=1
https://i1.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2019/03/IMG_9674.jpg?resize=600%2C350&ssl=1
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  0  
Sat 30 Mar, 2019 01:48 pm
https://i0.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2019/03/Screen-Shot-2019-03-24-at-11.10.58-AM.png?resize=376%2C600&ssl=1
Laughing Laughing Laughing
https://i0.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2019/03/Screen-Shot-2019-03-24-at-11.10.58-AM.png?resize=376%2C600&ssl=1
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Sat 30 Mar, 2019 01:52 pm
https://i1.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2019/03/Screen-Shot-2019-03-26-at-10.49.31-AM.png?resize=600%2C431&ssl=1
Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  0  
Sat 30 Mar, 2019 02:06 pm
Quote:
Best economy in 53 years

What really matters to the voters?
https://donsurber.blogspot.com/2019/03/best-economy-in-53-years.html?spref=tw
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Sat 30 Mar, 2019 02:10 pm
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Sat 30 Mar, 2019 03:31 pm
Quote:
I suspect that's just another juvenile attempt at insult, CJ's stock in trade.

No, it is an "in kind" response I have used use since day one. I have never run across a decidedly arrogant pompous group of people. You are one of them. You are also forgetting facts about Islam I post, also what you would call stock in trade.
Quote:
Agricultural does not not mean GMOs . . . you puerile twit.

Seeds are genetically altered. Seeds grow, you apparently don't.
Quote:
How do GMOs affect farmers?

Because GMOs are novel life forms, biotechnology companies have been able to obtain patents to control the use and distribution of their genetically engineered seeds. As a result, the companies that make GMOs now have the power to sue farmers whose fields have been contaminated with GMOs, even when it is the result of the drift of pollen from neighboring fields.2

https://www.nongmoproject.org/gmo-facts/
georgeob1
 
  0  
Sat 30 Mar, 2019 04:12 pm
@hightor,
I fully agree. Phosphorus is an element, and, like others, it cannot increase in quantity on the planet. Its widespread use, like that of the so called rare earth elements (though Phosphorus is immensely far more abundant than any of them), is causing their easily accessed concentrations to be more widely dispersed across the earth. That, however doesn't mean they can't be recovered after use. We will likely find economical ways to do that long before the easy sources run out.

Again we have seen claims, many from prominent and (usually undeservedly) credible and authoritative sources for peak coal, peak fissionable materials, peak natural gas, numerous claims for peak metals of all kinds, and many other things as well, all of which have been proven false. All have ignored the possibility of new technologies and substitutions readily achievable once the economic need sets them into motion. The only really interesting thing here is the the otherwise intelligent people who create and sustain them. The endurance of these follies almost always involves the self interest of academics and agencies created to "study the forthcoming crisis" : such agencies have no interest in losing their sources of income and social prominence, as the OECD, IEA and even IPCC have amply demonstrated.

Again there are verifiable scientific principles behind much of this, as I indicated with the logistics equation. and the observable fact that in nature, (apart perhaps from supernova explosions), there are no continuing exponential growth patterns - side effects and the response of other parts of the process/environment involved end up limiting that growth, leading to a new quasi equilibrium. The fact that intelligent people who should know better are themselves subject to such follies ( and sometimes self-serving deceptions) is amply confirmed in human history.

You mentioned CO2 induced warming. That too is subject to these limitations. Carbon is removed from the atmosphere by green plants which use it as a building material, and by the oceans which absorb it as carbonic acid which eventually combines with abundant calcium to form limestone in the ocean depths ( and there's a lot of that beneath the oceans), and provide material for the shells of living creatures. An increase in the carbon concentration in the atmosphere leads directly to increased absorption by green plants and the oceans. A couple of years ago, embarrassed because its short term temperature forecasts were regularly not met by an uncooperative planet, the IPCC admitted that they had not taken into account the accelerated growth (and accumulation) of green plants in their models and had also adjusted the assumed 10m depth of the oceanic mixing layer (an incredibly small estimate), thereby underestimating the oceanic absorption as well. Unfortunately for them their consensus forecasts still remain persistently high.

Nothing new here, the follies of academics and scientists in pursuing (sometimes motivated by self-interest) conventional theories favored by the then ruling hierarchies are as old as the history of science. In addition, in today's environment, professors get their papers published and tenure if they support currently fashionable theories such as AGW, and they are ignored if they don't.

The truth is often found between the contending parties. A good friend, Prof Robert Mueller, a physicist at Cal Berkeley, has a lot of personal experience with this. He is the one who led the exhaustive statistical analysis of numerous potential sources that finally established the superior correlation of the observed warming with atmospheric CO2. He started out as a so called "denier", when in fact he was just interested in the real science. He is also well aware of the fudging of the (scanty) 19th century data done apparently to magnify the 20th century warming, and of the continuing biases built into the IPCC models. He, along with many other prominent scientists acknowledges warming is occurring, but at a much lower rate than the IPCC suggests (one witch which we can easily cope ) and more importantly that the claims of a "hockey stick" acceleration is mere self-serving fantasy ( again the logistics principle applies here as well.) . Unlike many of the others Mueller is frank and open about it.

Human nature is what it is and is common to us all. Think about the wide variety of nonsensical political proposals out there, put forward by both liberals and conservatives, and the tempests that attend them. This is not unique to politics - it occurs in every field of human endeavor, including science.

0 Replies
 
 

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