192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
layman
 
  -3  
Fri 2 Feb, 2018 04:14 pm
A prosecutor can present 10 honest credible witnesses' testimony to a jury. But if he brings an 11th one to the stand who he knows, or has good reason to believe, is lying, the whole case will be thrown out for unconstitutional prosecutorial misconduct.

A court won't try to determine "how much, if any" that witness contributed to the jury's decision. That aint even the question, really. It's the fairness and impartially of the justice system itself that is at stake.
0 Replies
 
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layman
 
  -1  
Fri 2 Feb, 2018 04:25 pm
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:

Steele wasn't/isn't unreliable.


Heh.

1. Yeah, right, that's why the FBI dumped him for being "unreliable," eh?
2. Nobody has to prove that a witness "isn't unreliable." They have to show that he IS reliable.
3. There ya go with your "unsupported conclusions" again, eh, Rev? That seems to be your specialty. Especially in areas where you are completely uninformed.



BillW
 
  5  
Fri 2 Feb, 2018 04:26 pm
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:

Quote:
Steele wasn't/isn't unreliable.

Such as tRump and Nunes are and Ryan is beginning to be and McConnell is.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Fri 2 Feb, 2018 04:43 pm
Has anyone posted Schiff's initial response to Nunes?
layman
 
  -3  
Fri 2 Feb, 2018 04:45 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

Has anyone posted Schiff's initial response to Nunes?


His "initial" response was given over a week ago. It was to the effect that Nunes was a lying traitor who was out to destroy law enforcement, as I recall.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  6  
Fri 2 Feb, 2018 04:55 pm
@ehBeth,
no?

okey doke then

https://democrats-intelligence.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=350


Quote:

House Intelligence Committee Minority Response to Release of Chairman Nunes’ Misleading Memo
f t # e
Washington, February 2, 2018 | 0 comments
Washington, DC – Today, the Minority of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence responded to the release of HPSCI Chairman Nunes’ memo:

“Chairman Nunes’ decision, supported by House Speaker Ryan and Republican Members of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, to publicly release misleading allegations against the Department of Justice and Federal Bureau of Investigation is a shameful effort to discredit these institutions, undermine the Special Counsel’s ongoing investigation, and undercut congressional probes. Furthermore, their refusal to allow release of a comprehensive response memorandum prepared by Committee Democrats is a transparent effort to suppress the full truth.

“As the DOJ emphasized to Chairman Nunes, the decision to employ an obscure and never before used House rule to release classified information without DOJ and FBI vetting was ‘extraordinarily reckless.’ The selective release and politicization of classified information sets a terrible precedent and will do long-term damage to the Intelligence Community and our law enforcement agencies. If potential intelligence sources know that their identities might be compromised when political winds arise, those sources of vital information will simply dry up, at great cost to our national security.

“The Republican document mischaracterizes highly sensitive classified information that few Members of Congress have seen, and which Chairman Nunes himself chose not to review. It fails to provide vital context and information contained in DOJ’s FISA application and renewals, and ignores why and how the FBI initiated, and the Special Counsel has continued, its counterintelligence investigation into Russia’s election interference and links to the Trump campaign. The sole purpose of the Republican document is to circle the wagons around the White House and insulate the President. Tellingly, when asked whether the Republican staff who wrote the memo had coordinated its drafting with the White House, the Chairman refused to answer.

“The premise of the Nunes memo is that the FBI and DOJ corruptly sought a FISA warrant on a former Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, Carter Page, and deliberately misled the court as part of a systematic abuse of the FISA process. As the Minority memo makes clear, none of this is true. The FBI had good reason to be concerned about Carter Page and would have been derelict in its responsibility to protect the country had it not sought a FISA warrant.

“In order to understand the context in which the FBI sought a FISA warrant for Carter Page, it is necessary to understand how the investigation began, what other information the FBI had about Russia’s efforts to interfere with our election, and what the FBI knew about Carter Page prior to making application to the court – including Carter Page’s previous interactions with Russian intelligence operatives. This is set out in the Democratic response which the GOP so far refuses to make public.

“The authors of the GOP memo would like the country to believe that the investigation began with Christopher Steele and the dossier, and if they can just discredit Mr. Steele, they can make the whole investigation go away regardless of the Russians’ interference in our election or the role of the Trump campaign in that interference. This ignores the inconvenient fact that the investigation did not begin with, or arise from Christopher Steele or the dossier, and that the investigation would persist on the basis of wholly independent evidence had Christopher Steele never entered the picture.

“The DOJ appropriately provided the court with a comprehensive explanation of Russia’s election interference, including evidence that Russian agents courted another Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, George Papadopoulos. As we know from Papadopoulos’ guilty plea, Russian agents disclosed to Papadopoulos their possession of stolen Clinton emails and interest in a relationship with the campaign. In claiming that there is ‘no evidence of any cooperation or conspiracy between Page and Papadopoulos,’ the Majority deliberately misstates the reason why DOJ specifically explained Russia’s role in courting Papadopoulos and the context in which to evaluate Russian approaches to Page.

“The Majority suggests that the FBI failed to alert the court as to Mr. Steele’s potential political motivations or the political motivations of those who hired him, but this is not accurate. The GOP memo also claims that a Yahoo News article was used to corroborate Steele, but this is not at all why the article was referenced. These are but a few of the serious mischaracterizations of the FISA application. There are many more set out in the Democratic response, which we will again be seeking a vote to release publicly on Monday, February 5th. Unlike Committee Republicans, however, we will ask the relevant agencies to propose any necessary redactions to protect any sources and methods not already disclosed by Chairman Nunes’ document.

“It is telling that Chairman Nunes put out this memo without bothering to read the underlying materials, and that he ordered changes to the document without informing his own committee members. It is a terrible lapse in leadership that Speaker Ryan failed to intervene and prevent the abuse of classified materials in this way. It is tragic, if all too predictable, that this President would allow the release of the memo despite FBI and DOJ’s expressions of ‘grave concerns about material omissions of fact that fundamentally impact the [Republicans’] memo’s accuracy’. But most destructive of all may be the announcement by Chairman Nunes that he has placed the FBI and DOJ under investigation, impugning and impairing the work of the dedicated professionals trying to keep our country safe.”




there is a link to the Nunes memo and letter from the White House at the link above
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layman
 
  -4  
Fri 2 Feb, 2018 04:58 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

And that is the same to get a warrant at the FISA-court?


It might not be clear to you Walt, but here is the U.S., the constitution applies to every governmental proceeding. The constitutional right of citizens to be free of unreasonable searches does not get suspended just because the prosecutor is meeting with a judge in a secret star chamber escapade where the "accused" is not permitted to defend himself or speak on his own behalf in any manner.

And the same is true of their constitutional right to be afforded "due process of law." It is actually that provision which requires prosecutors to disclose all known exculpatory evidence to the person entitled to know it (which always includes the judge). "Justice" is not viewed as a product of whoever can be the most devious, disingenuous, and deceptive. Truth, not winning a case against a "bad guy," is the criterion for a just conviction here in the fabulous USA.

No one in this country (well, apart from a cheese-eater, I mean) would ever even ask such a question.

America First, Baby!
0 Replies
 
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Builder
 
  -2  
Fri 2 Feb, 2018 05:10 pm
@ehBeth,
“It is telling that Chairman Nunes put out this memo without bothering to read the underlying materials, and that he ordered changes to the document without informing his own committee members. It is a terrible lapse in leadership that Speaker Ryan failed to intervene and prevent the abuse of classified materials in this way. It is tragic, if all too predictable, that this President would allow the release of the memo despite FBI and DOJ’s expressions of ‘grave concerns about material omissions of fact that fundamentally impact the [Republicans’] memo’s accuracy’. But most destructive of all may be the announcement by Chairman Nunes that he has placed the FBI and DOJ under investigation, impugning and impairing the work of the dedicated professionals trying to keep our country safe.”


Here's a clue; if there's omissions from Nunes' report that can show that the FBI and DOJ are not implicated up to their ears in this scandal, then they had the whole week to assemble their defense. After all, they'd all read this memo, and knew exactly what was coming.

Next!!
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -4  
Fri 2 Feb, 2018 05:18 pm
@layman,
layman wrote:
Ya really should give some kind of link when ya say **** like that, eh, Roy?

I didn't have one, I'd just seen it on the news.
0 Replies
 
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revelette1
 
  4  
Fri 2 Feb, 2018 05:42 pm
@ehBeth,
We better pray there is a god, if not, I think we in the US are in serious trouble with all this, I don't even know the words to describe it.
revelette1
 
  4  
Fri 2 Feb, 2018 05:44 pm
@layman,
He never worked for the FBI, he was a British intelligence agent and he didn't get fired or have to leave under any cloud that I have heard of.
revelette1
 
  4  
Fri 2 Feb, 2018 05:54 pm
Mark Warner
@MarkWarner
Quote:
Unlike almost every House member who voted in favor of this memo's release, I have actually read the underlying documents on which the #NunesMemo was based. They simply do not support its conclusions.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  -3  
Fri 2 Feb, 2018 05:57 pm
@revelette1,
Quote:
I don't even know the words to describe it.


Here's someone who can help you with that, Rev.

Jesse Carpenter: "If you put all the pieces together here's what you get. The DNC rigs the Democratic Primary Election against Bernie Sanders so Hillary can win the nomination. Obama's administration starts to request surveillance on Trump, his family, his transition team, and anyone associated with him.

Donna Brazil gives Hillary the questions to a debate. The DNC pays Christopher Steele to come up with a smear dossier about Trump. The mainstream media releases a taped conversation about Trump talking about grabbing women parts. After all this Trump still wins the General Election.

Obama orders an investigation into Russia meddling in our elections. Obama changes Executive Order 12333 to allow more agencies to have access to surveillance data. The Democratic Party comes up with a scandal that Trump Colluded with Russia to win the election with no evidence or proof.

This wild claim is backed up by the mainstream media. Obama hold overs start unmasking Trump's transition team and staff members then release the classified information to the mainstream media. Why? Because the DNC and the Obama administration colluded with the intelligence community to thwart Trump's campaign efforts to get him elected president.

All this Russia collusion is an attempt to cover up the fact that the Obama administration, the intelligence community, the DNC, along with the mainstream media used our nations surveillance as a political tool to try to get Hillary elected President. This makes Watergate look like a kindergarten play. Let that sink in......."
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  4  
Fri 2 Feb, 2018 06:16 pm
@revelette1,
Quote:

@NatashaBertrand
1h1 hour ago

Some news: Devin Nunes’ Democratic opponent, @JanzforCongress, raised over $100,000 today alone with news of the memo release, per a senior campaign aide.


Builder
 
  -2  
Fri 2 Feb, 2018 06:18 pm
@ehBeth,
Is the money for legal defense teams?

They'd spend that in a couple of hours.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  4  
Fri 2 Feb, 2018 06:19 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
Trey Gowdy

Verified account

@TGowdySC

As I have said repeatedly, I also remain 100 percent confident in Special Counsel Robert Mueller. The contents of this memo do not - in any way - discredit his investigation.


interesting days
 

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