192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
blatham
 
  2  
Fri 23 Dec, 2016 03:55 pm
Quote:
LOLGOP ‏@LOLGOP 22m22 minutes ago
This Israel vote was timed to make sure every holiday dinner ends with someone changing a will.

This is one funny dude and consistently so.

Some of you may have been following this story re the UN vote and Trump's demand that Obama veto the vote re Israel's settlement policies (the US abstained, thus vote carried). As Israel's long-term policy re Palestinian land has been the rough equivalent of the Nazi idea that Germany deserved to take any and all territory it wanted, the UN vote is the only morally defensible position to hold. And we knew that if the vote went this way with the US abstaining or voting for the motion, that the US right would go fruitcake and it already is - Tom Cotton being absolutely predictable (many more will follow)
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Fri 23 Dec, 2016 04:02 pm
Let me just say how comforting it is to see Trump doing the "we're gonna get lots more cool nukes now that I'm in charge" because of how stabilizing this will be in countries that already have some like India and Pakistan and NK etc. And of course also because what is to keep non-nuke nations from now working to get with this new, exciting and nationalist-manly game?

But I'm sure that Trump, with his great knowledge and understanding of such matters gained over years of study, has all this figured out. Am I right or what?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 23 Dec, 2016 04:06 pm
@blatham,
Off by about a 1000 degrees. Trump is a dangerous idiot. We already have enough security forces around the world with nukes at the ready at any country stupid enough to attack first.
I worked with nukes in the USAF in the late 1950s. We had enough nukes back then to implement MAD, and Russia knows it.

All we need to do is drop just a few like in Moscow, St Petersburg, and another huge city like Novosibirsk (1.5 million). Russia has more of a challenge, because of our allies in North America, South America, Asia and Europe. Where will they start their attack?

blatham
 
  3  
Fri 23 Dec, 2016 04:10 pm
Here's a question.

Can we assume that the people around Trump including appointees have the desire to get rid of the United Nations? We sure better recognize that his is a very real possibility.
blatham
 
  4  
Fri 23 Dec, 2016 04:14 pm
@cicerone imposter,
One part of this which I really can't speak to is whether or to what degree our existing nuclear arsenal might be in need of maintenance/upgrades simply on the basis of safety.

Aside from that, or other than that, the incompetent and pathological madman in charge aspect of the present moment is just not deniable.
ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Fri 23 Dec, 2016 04:20 pm
@blatham,
Hmm. That is fairly inciting talk.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Fri 23 Dec, 2016 04:23 pm
@Debra Law,
Debra Law wrote:

Your fallacious appeals to fear are obvious to me. You are advocating a "clash" between us and them wherein we survive and they do not. If I am wrong, then please explain what you claim to be "obvious". How are you going to win the battle of survival between us and them and in what ways are you going to force them to adapt to "our ways"? Be more obvious, please.


I fear your knowledge of history is very deficient. The Vikings were once very feared and murderous barbarians who raided the coastal areas of then much more advanced (but less vigorous) people in France, Britain and Ireland. Over time they assimilated the rising cultural values derived from Greece and Rome. Today they are very polite and well behaved Norwegians, Swedes and Danes. Before that in sequence the Gauls , Helvetians and Teutons and finally Goths threatened Rome with their barbarous ways , and they too bacame part of a much more refined composite culture. That wasn't very hard was it?


Debra Law wrote:

I see what you write, and it's scary. As frightening as the stuff on Stormfront.org. I think it's clear that you're here to stir up a pot of hate directed at minorities (black, gay, etc.) and Muslims.
I have never seen "Stormfront.org" Do you frequent it?

I am particularly amused by your thoughtless inclusions of blacks, gays and others here. I made no mention of either. . You can't help yourself can you? After rejecting the applicability of political correctitude to any of this, you quickly jump on its bandwagon and presume that since I am (in your feeble eyes) convicted of one violation of its rules I must be guilty of all.

Is that fearmongering ? or perhaps a fallacy .... or even a strawman???

Debra Law wrote:

And you have yet to explain your prior references to modern day "plantations". Still waiting for your backtracking and denials there.


You'll get neither . You can put that demand in the same dark place as the others.

My metaphorical reference was neither original or lacking in applicability . Much has been written (starting with Pat Moynihan three decades ago )about the failures of Liberal programs starting with "the War on Poverty " , and all that has followed. Much of it has indeed been destructive to the social and cultural fabric of those who were its nominal beneficiaries. However it also made the careers, power and status of generations of liberal bureaucrats and pontificators who gently guide the behavior and actions of the inferiors whom nature and a Democrat Adminsitration put in their paternal charge. The plantation metaphor is indeed apt.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Fri 23 Dec, 2016 04:29 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Let me just say how comforting it is to see Trump doing the "we're gonna get lots more cool nukes now that I'm in charge" because of how stabilizing this will be in countries that already have some like India and Pakistan and NK etc. And of course also because what is to keep non-nuke nations from now working to get with this new, exciting and nationalist-manly game?

But I'm sure that Trump, with his great knowledge and understanding of such matters gained over years of study, has all this figured out. Am I right or what?


Perhaps it is your knowledge of physics that is deficient here. The shelf life of nuclear warheads is in fact limited, and for the past decade we have seriously neglected ours, leaving only a shrinking infrastructure for remanufacturng existing ones. The result is that the credibility and deterrence potential of our arsenal is shrinking at a time when Russia is maintaining its own very effectively and modernizing its delivery systems (even as they "hack" our elections! ) ; Iran is fast developing both weapons and delivery sysstems now free of the sanctions that had previously limited their actiona; and even rogue idiot governments like North Korea threaten us with anhnialation.
0 Replies
 
ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Fri 23 Dec, 2016 04:31 pm
@blatham,
I hadn't gotten that far in my supposing. Egads.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  5  
Fri 23 Dec, 2016 04:33 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Debra Law wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:

I wonder if Debra (or Blatham) watched the video published today of two Turkish soldiers, evidently captured in Syria, being burned alive by their Islamic state captors. . . .


Still engaged in fearmongering? Appeal to fear is a fallacy. And now it appears that you don't even recognize that Muslims have the right to exist because you've essentially declared them to be too dangerous to share the earth with us.

Again, please provide the text of Blatham's commentary (along with the link to the alleged post) that proves your allegation that Blatham said "F__ you" "to all religion and all religious believers".


Fearmongering is a technique, not a "fallacy". It is a fallacy only if it is offered as the sole basis for a categorical proof, and that quite obviously is not the case here. You make yourself look stupid with this stuff.

You may have noticed ( but then again maybe not) that I have proposed only that today Islam is indeed engaged in an historical struggle with the Western wotld that will likely end with the domination of one or the other in the context and sense of history. Additionally I propose only to limit the entry of people from certain antithetical and threatening countries to the United States based on the reasonable judgment that they might be less amenable to assimilation than are the very numerous other requesters of that privilege and entry. That is somewhat less than denying their right to exist on the planet. ( Could this be yet another Straw man????)

You can (and should) read Blatham's post yourself - It's all readily available on this thread. You can put your demands for a recitation from me any place you want, though I do have one in mind.





You threw in this fearful gem: "burned alive by their Islamic state captors". Your appeals to fear (argumentum in terrorem) are indeed logical fallacies because you're using those fallacies to support your claim that it's us or them (Muslims) because only one of us can survive and dominate. Your present backtracking is laughable. How will denying Muslims entry into the US ensure our world domination over all Muslims or prevent them from burning alive their captives in Syria? I think you desire to have the Donald's trigger finger on the nukes. (Just to start with, you know, on our way to world domination.)

I did read Blatham's statement and he didn't say what you claimed he said. The purpose of asking you to provide the statement was to see if you would actually do it and admit you were wrong. Alas, you have demonstrated your unwillingness to prove your claims or be held accountable for your falsehoods and fallacies.

0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Fri 23 Dec, 2016 04:33 pm
@blatham,
You do realize the president has been given the power to start wars without checking with congress dont you? Bush 43 did so twice.
blatham
 
  4  
Fri 23 Dec, 2016 04:34 pm
So, here's a tweet from Ari Fleisher
Quote:
So much for the "unbreakable" bond between Israel and the US. President Obama today broke it.

Aside from the idiotic absolutism sitting underneath that claim (not to mention the implication that re Israel, America has no actual sovereignty - if Israel says or does X then American must concur) there's this bit of history pointed out in a tweet responding to Fleischer
Quote:
Dylan Williams ‏@dylanotes 2h2 hours ago
Dylan Williams Retweeted Ari Fleischer
G.W. Bush, who I recall you had some kind of association with, abstained on UNSC vote condemning home demolitions in the occupied territory

Fleischer has never owned one of those honesty filters. He lies through his teeth with regularity.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Fri 23 Dec, 2016 04:35 pm
@RABEL222,
Yes.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Fri 23 Dec, 2016 04:46 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

One part of this which I really can't speak to is whether or to what degree our existing nuclear arsenal might be in need of maintenance/upgrades simply on the basis of safety.

Aside from that, or other than that, the incompetent and pathological madman in charge aspect of the present moment is just not deniable.


Our posts on the matter in the first paragraph crossed in the ether. I'm pleased and encouraged to see that acknowledgment of the (quite common) limits in your knowledge in this area. Admirable.

However you squashed the goodwill earned with your second paragraph. Neither you nor I know if Trump is or is not an "incompetent and pathological madman". There is however a substantial case to be made for the proposition that he is a capable leader and manager. He also demonstrated a good deal more energy, ability to communicate, and wise tenacity in the recent campaign than did his "eminently qualified" opponent, Hillary Clinton. He has selected a so far remarkably well qualified collection of strong deputies, indicating a taste for strong, independent advisors - a good sign (whether you agree with or oppose their policy preferences is beside the point here) All is not yeat lost. Hell, he might even be as good as Justin Trudeau or his father.
blatham
 
  3  
Fri 23 Dec, 2016 04:49 pm
Another bit of historical data re UN votes on Israel (from Mark Mellman)
Quote:
Not 1st time US allowed anti Israel res @UN...
Under...
LBJ 7
Nixon 15
Ford 2
Carter 14
Reagan 21
GHWB 9
WJC 3
GWB 6
BHO 1

0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  6  
Fri 23 Dec, 2016 04:52 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
There is however a substantial case to be made for the proposition that he is a capable leader and manager.

The same argument could be made for Stalin.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Fri 23 Dec, 2016 05:00 pm
@blatham,
True enough. However by the time Stalin succeeded Lenin he already asmassed a substantial record of violent crime in his native Georgia and was, among other things, an accomplished assassin, a skill he immediatly put to use after his ascension to power.
blatham
 
  3  
Fri 23 Dec, 2016 05:07 pm
Re Berlin attack, Trump just tweeted this statement
Quote:
"When will the U.S., and all countries, fight back?"

Is Trump actually stupid enough to be unaware of the last 15 years? Of the countless operations run by the US and other nations? Given his disinterest in learning about all of this, he likely knows little about it but he must grasp it better than his tweet implies.

So what is he up to with that piece of fruitcake rhetoric?
1) he's continuing to rile up his base with religious war notions ("I got where I am pushing hatred against "the other" so I'm going to continue doing what works")
2) he's pushing the propaganda line that the prior administration was weak and feminine but his will be manly and dangerous
3) purposefully or not (we don't yet know how much the people around him actually WANT broader and deeper wars) he is inciting the people he is talking about to take an even more aggressive approach to terrorist attacks against US targets.
blatham
 
  2  
Fri 23 Dec, 2016 05:11 pm
@georgeob1,
Trump and Stalin are not the same. Nor Trump and Hitler who got the trains running on time.

"Managerial skill" is not a quality I find even slightly reassuring.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  4  
Fri 23 Dec, 2016 05:26 pm
Sometimes, we really must admit, Trump gets it right. Note the date here.
Quote:
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 7 May 2014
The global warming we should be worried about is the global warming caused by NUCLEAR WEAPONS in the hands of crazy or incompetent leaders!
0 Replies
 
 

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