192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
layman
 
  -3  
Mon 26 Jun, 2017 11:53 am
USA Today wrote:
All 13 judges on those two courts who voted to strike down the revised travel ban were appointed by Democratic presidents.

By contrast, the Supreme Court includes five justices named by Republican presidents and four by Democrats.


I get a little more optimistic about the future of this country's jurisprudence when I know that the 5-4 split will soon be 8-1.

Trump will choose wise, experienced jurists in their 40's to serve on the Supreme Court, and their impact will last for generations.

The judicial activists on the left can take solace in the fact that they will still have representation coming from a lone dissenter in future 8-1 decisions. They should spend vast amounts of money bringing lawsuits so that they can see that solitary opinion expressed while getting their sorry asses kicked, like, HARD, by the court.

They love "moral victories," eh?

Finn dAbuzz
 
  -3  
Mon 26 Jun, 2017 12:02 pm
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:

Everyone has their own motives and styles. I am always willing to take comfort where I can find it. I would like to know what's the big deal of that? In any event, yes it is better than Trump's original travel ban and the court put an additional cravat on it as well as well leaving in vetting process which would eventually allow them in. This way it left in the President's role of the executive branch but it curbed Trump's excesses. So all the protesting and the lower courts did some good.

I still think it is a totally unnecessary ban and will do little of its intended goal.


I encouraged you to take comfort where you can. Life's tough enough without rejecting comfort, even if it's illusory.

I also encourage people to find amusement where they can, and I am amused by Democrats finding silver linings in flat out defeats. Not a big deal on my part either.
layman
 
  -3  
Mon 26 Jun, 2017 12:08 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
A victory not only for Trump, but for the Executive Branch and rational jurisprudence.
I might have got it wrong - I didn't study US constitutional law and judicial legislation at university - but as far as I understood, parts of Trump's ban remain blocked, and there hadn't been a ruling on the overall constitutionality.


Without attempting to question the dubious insinuations you are making here, Walt, I will just ask you this:

What does what you said have to do with what Finn said?
revelette1
 
  3  
Mon 26 Jun, 2017 12:09 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
even if it's illusory
Rolling Eyes

So leaving aside the infantile peeing contest, do you think the travel ban was necessary or do it's intended goal?
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  5  
Mon 26 Jun, 2017 12:10 pm
United States Supreme Court link to "travel ban" opinion:
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/16pdf/16-1436_l6hc.pdf
InfraBlue
 
  3  
Mon 26 Jun, 2017 12:14 pm
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:

Maybe achieving peace between Israel and Palestine is as difficult as people have thought over the years.

Trump skipping the traditional Ramadon Dinner probably doesn't help things. Quite a jerk.

Trump's is just another US administration that acts like Israel's legal council and not like the unbiased arbiters they've all claimed to be.

What the Palestinians must do is renounce any autonomous authority over the scant little territory under their control and demand enfranchisement throughout all of Palestine, from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River, down to the Gulf of Aqaba as delineated by the Palestine Mandate. After all, it is their Right.
revelette1
 
  2  
Mon 26 Jun, 2017 12:14 pm
@Debra Law,
Thanks Debra for the link. I have to admit it would take me weeks to get through it and even then, not sure I would understand it.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  5  
Mon 26 Jun, 2017 12:16 pm
@layman,
layman wrote:
What does what you said have to do with what Finn said?
I don't understand why it is "a victory" when a presidential order is only partially and temporarily uphold.

But as said: I didn't study US law at university - so please do excuse my "dubious insinuations".
layman
 
  -3  
Mon 26 Jun, 2017 12:25 pm
@Debra Law,
the Supreme Court wrote:
The Government’s interest in enforcing §2(c), and the Executive’s authority to do so, are undoubtedly at their peak when there is no tie between the foreign national and the United States. We accordingly grant the Government’s stay applications...

As for entities, the relationship must be formal, documented, and formed in the ordinary course, rather than for the purpose of evading EO–2. The students from the designated countries who have been admitted to the University of Hawaii have such a relationship with an American entity. So too would a worker who accepted an offer of employment from an American company or a lecturer invited to address an American audience.

Not so someone who enters into a relationship simply to avoid §2(c): For example, a nonprofit group devoted to immigration issues may not contact foreign nationals from the designated countries, add them to client lists, and then secure their entry by claiming injury from their exclusion.


Bad news for your ridiculous "open borders" agenda, eh, cheese-eaters?
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -3  
Mon 26 Jun, 2017 12:31 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

I don't understand why it is "a victory" when a presidential order is only partially and temporarily uphold.


The President, and this country, were, on an ongoing and absolute basis, being irreparably harmed by the injunctions of the candyass appellate courts. That interference with national security has now been TERMINATED. This is a victory for the American people. He will now, once again, be allowed to fulfill his duty to protect them from foreign adversaries.

That is unquestionably a victory.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Mon 26 Jun, 2017 12:46 pm
@layman,
Do rulings of lower courts, which are overtaken later, generally harm?
If so - why do you have three main levels in the federal court system?

And shouldn't all laws (and presidential orders) be legally okay?
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layman
 
  -4  
Mon 26 Jun, 2017 01:48 pm
This whole "ban" controversy was the brainchild of that brilliant strategist, Steve Bannon.

He deliberately drafted the first order (and planned it's immediate implementation) with the intention of stirring up as much cheese-eater outrage as possible.

Predictably, they went running to their cheese-eating homeys on the federal court benches to whine.

Just as predictably, their traitorous attempts to undermine national security were authoritatively rejected by the Supreme Court, thereby exposing them for what they are. They proclaimed themselves to be "patriots" seeking to protect "American values." Fraid not.

Great job, Steve!
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 26 Jun, 2017 02:16 pm
@layman,
I'm still thinking that the Supreme Court reinstated (sic!) Trump's travel ban only for some immigrants - after having read the ruling again now and despite your rambling burp kind elaboration of legal terms and concepts.
Could well be a Pyrrhi victoria.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Mon 26 Jun, 2017 02:39 pm
@Debra Law,
Thanks
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Mon 26 Jun, 2017 02:40 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
You seem vexed.


Oh Finn — you're such a clever fellow! Actually I don't mind admitting to being vexed by some of the posts I see on A2K, some of the opinion pieces I read, and some of the things I hear people say. And I use words to convey that vexation. Now "goddam" represents a rather low level of annoyance, my usual reaction to the person or bot which submitted the post I responded to.

Making fun of someone else's online persona and engaging in a pissing contest usually indicates a greater degree of irritation, as in my taunting joust with another member yesterday — although, to be honest, I sort of feel compelled to respond to him in the same dismissive way he treats me and anyone else he disagrees with. I assume he likes to be treated this way since it seems to be his stock and trade on this board. I have him on "ignore" but will respond occasionally when he comments on a post I've submitted. I doubt, however, that it affects my blood pressure — I was exaggerating for effect.

I've come to value several of the other rightists around here and I try to treat them respectfully. My — well "admiration" might be too strong a word — appreciation of you goes back a long time (remember the PUP threads? Roy Buchanan? Rama Fuchs?) and I know I can count on you to lay out conservative viewpoints in a well-reasoned, readable manner. Which I'll still probably disagree with. Sorry my writing isn't always up to the high standards you set in your serious responses but sometimes my microcephaly kicks in. It's a struggle.
layman
 
  -3  
Mon 26 Jun, 2017 02:41 pm
The U.S. constitution empowers congress to regulate immigration while granting the President the authority to establish foreign policy (diplomacy, conduct war, etc.)

There are times when there is an overlap. Congress can, and does, pass broadly-worded laws which authorize the executive branch to exercise discretion when implementing and enforcing them. For example:

Quote:
8 U.S. Code § 1182 - Inadmissible aliens
(a) Classes of aliens ineligible for visas or admission: Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, aliens who are inadmissible under the following paragraphs are ineligible to receive visas and ineligible to be admitted to the United States:...

(A) In general: Any alien who a consular officer or the Attorney General knows, or has reasonable ground to believe, seeks to enter the United States to engage solely, principally, or incidentally in—

(i) any activity (I) to violate any law of the United States relating to espionage or sabotage or (II) to violate or evade any law prohibiting the export from the United States of goods, technology, or sensitive information,

(ii) any other unlawful activity, or

(iii) any activity a purpose of which is the opposition to, or the control or overthrow of, the Government of the United States by force, violence, or other unlawful means, is inadmissible.

(B) Terrorist activities: In general Any alien who—

(I) has engaged in a terrorist activity;

(II) a consular officer, the Attorney General, or the Secretary of Homeland Security knows, or has reasonable ground to believe, is engaged in or is likely to engage after entry in any terrorist activity (as defined in clause (iv));

(III) has, under circumstances indicating an intention to cause death or serious bodily harm, incited terrorist activity...is inadmissible.


The point is that federal statutes come into play in these questions, not just the constitution. The question can be "is this a matter exclusively within the jurisdiction of Congress, and, if so has it granted powers to the President and the executive branch with respect to it?"

In my opinion these are the primary questions to be resolved at the full hearing of this issue by the Supreme Court.

Congress has passed laws pertaing to (and giving preference to) foreigners with relatives living in the U.S. To what extent, if any, might such laws supersede other federal laws or encroach upon the President's broad constitutional authority to deal with foreign threats to domestic citizens?
layman
 
  -4  
Mon 26 Jun, 2017 02:42 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Could well be a Pyrrhi victoria.


Hope springs eternal, they say, eh, Walt, and that goes double for cheese-eaters.
 

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