Video of U.S. war crimes

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From http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1011.htm

You can make up your own minds about what the video shows. I'm just the messenger.

from the related article:

Quote:

10/06/04 "The Independent" -- The Pentagon said yesterday it was investigating cockpit video footage that shows American pilots attacking and killing a group of apparently unarmed Iraqi civilians.

The 30-second clip shows the pilot targeting the group of people in a street in the city of Fallujah and asking his mission controllers whether he should "take them out". He is told to do so and, shortly afterwards, the footage shows a huge explosion where the people were. A second voice can be heard on the clip saying: "Oh, dude."

The existence of the video, taken last April inside the cockpit of a US F-16 fighter has been known for some time, though last night's broadcast by Channel 4 News is believed to be the first time a mainstream broadcaster has shown the footage.

At no point during the exchange between the pilot and controllers does anyone ask whether the Iraqis are armed or posing a threat. Critics say it proves war crimes are being committed.

There's no evidence of weapons in that video. I'm well aware that we are fighting a war, but killing civilians like this? That's sure going to stop the terrorists.....

I can already predict the arguments. 'You don't know if those were civilians or not, yadda yadda....' Well, YOU don't either. Noone knows. The pilots didn't know. But they still killed 'em anyways.

Sickening, truly. THIS is why Bush won't sign on for the ICC - we won't be able to bomb civilians and get away with it.

Cycloptichorn

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sickening...wonder if there's one less terrorist or a hundred more?

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Insufficient audio to make a determination. Would need more than 30 seconds of audio and or a mission objective.

I may well be that these were known insurgents.

This is the type of propaganda that helps no one and hurts our soldiers. You insinuate our pilot is at fault.

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There's no mention of 'insurgents' in the streets. Just people.

According to the article, the pentagon is investigating the event. I highly doubt they would do that if these were 'known insurgents.'

Cycloptichorn

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And yes, I am implying that our pilot/command crew is at fault.

Just because someone is a US soldier does NOT mean they are immune to making mistakes!!!

Cycloptichorn

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The audio of the pilot is "THERE ARE NUMEROUS INDIVIDUALS......"

The event occurred in April.

Can we give the Pentagon more than a day to get investigte?

This clip proves only that people were hit. Were they innocent civilians or not can not be determined by this 30 second clip.

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That's the point, woiyo. They shouldn't have fired, from jets, at what were potentially civilians.

There is no justification for it.

And btw; the pentagon didn't just get this video yesterday, they've known about it for months. SOund familiar? <cough><abu ghraib><cough>

Cycloptichorn

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can't get the link to work for some reason...

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<scratches head>

Works for me. Let me see if I can find ya another one.

Cycloptichorn

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Cyclo - Based upon that audio and video, no one can make that absolute determination that they were civilians. The mission objective and intel may have determined that they WERE insurgents.

The Pentagon had that video as the event happened in real time. There may be nothing to report since it was a known target.

All I am suggesting is that just because some journalist gets their hands on a 30 second clip of a possible hours long mission, let's not be so quick to say we were wrong.

I welcome the investigation and look forward to the results.

By the way, why only a 30 second clip? Why not a 60 second clip, 2:00 clip? Where is the clip from the beginning.

Maybe some clever editing?

See, we can both be cynical of the message and the messenger.

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The point is, woiyo, we just don't know.

But it certainly doesn't look good.

There is a large possibility, from the video, that these were NOT known insurgents. There's no evidence of weapons, or of insurgent behavior - the people are walking right down the middle of the street. Maybe they figured they would be safe if everyone saw that they were unarmed. They figured wrong.

I'm pretty sure that if they were 'known insurgents' the pentagon wouldn't even be looking into it - they'd just say so....

Cycloptichorn

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

There is a large possibility, from the video, that these were NOT known insurgents.

There's an equally large possibility that they were insurgents.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

There's no evidence of weapons, or of insurgent behavior - the people are walking right down the middle of the street.

That proves nothing, it's like saying Dillinger shouldn't have been taken out because he wasn't robbing a bank at the time.

It's rather suspicious that they're only showing 30 seconds of tape and no other information has been obtained.

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That was sick.

They were walking casually down the road. Even with a plane overhead, they didn't run or try to take cover as someone would if they were not innocent.

My heart is heavy, and I pity anyone who isn't bothered by that thirty second video, or that would try to defend it.

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Ok, my take on this clip, I know you were waiting for it...

Fallujah has been a hotbed of activity. US and Iraqi troops have been trying to get control of the area. I'm willing to bet that the airplane was flying overhead support and there were US troops in the area that have been under fire. That's SOP. Before the clip, they don't show the back and forth of giving secters to be fired at or the goal of the mission. F-16 pilots don't just fly around arbitrarily dropping bombs on people.

Odds are it was a band of insurgent fighters moving positions or re-inforcing a different insurgent position.

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How about my take McG? If I was an insurgent would I walk leisurely down the street knowing the Air Force has eyes in the sky? I'd be one dumb insurgent and likely wouldnt have lasted this long.

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And they didn't.

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McGentrix wrote:

Ok, my take on this clip, I know you were waiting for it...

Fallujah has been a hotbed of activity. US and Iraqi troops have been trying to get control of the area. I'm willing to bet that the airplane was flying overhead support and there were US troops in the area that have been under fire. That's SOP. Before the clip, they don't show the back and forth of giving secters to be fired at or the goal of the mission. F-16 pilots don't just fly around arbitrarily dropping bombs on people.

Odds are it was a band of insurgent fighters moving positions or re-inforcing a different insurgent position.

I bet you especially like the part where the guy laughs and goes "Oh Dude"...tell me buddy is there any footage you could be shown of something involving death, torture, mutilation of an Iraqi you wouldn't defend to your last breath?

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
Ok, my take on this clip, I know you were waiting for it...

Fallujah has been a hotbed of activity. US and Iraqi troops have been trying to get control of the area. I'm willing to bet that the airplane was flying overhead support and there were US troops in the area that have been under fire. That's SOP. Before the clip, they don't show the back and forth of giving secters to be fired at or the goal of the mission. F-16 pilots don't just fly around arbitrarily dropping bombs on people.

Odds are it was a band of insurgent fighters moving positions or re-inforcing a different insurgent position.

I bet you especially like the part where the guy laughs and goes "Oh Dude"...tell me buddy is there any footage you could be shown of something involving death, torture, mutilation of an Iraqi you wouldn't defend to your last breath?

I wqasn't aware of your intimate knowledge of that clip. How did you come to know they were Iraqi's? How is it you seem to be one of the few in the world that know they were just innocent victims walking down the street? How is that despite the fact you have ZERO knowledge of the mission, the targetted area or what was happening at the time you think you know what happened?

You, and people like you expect the worse, seek out the worse and warp every situation until it fits into a mold that you can hate. It doesn't matter what the facts say or don't say, you'll just assume that Bush and the administration must be at fault and that there is nothing they could ever possibly do right.

For all you know, they were an identified gang of armed insurgents that had been reconned and IDed to the fighter above. You wonder why people question your patriotism...

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avoided my question by attacking my patriotism......bush must be a truly god like figure to you....

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and btw what would you like to offer as proof that any sort of majority of people question my patriotism?

If you can't offer any proof of the statement you should probably back up off it.....

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Video of U.S. war crimes

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