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What is life? (a personal view)

 
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Aug, 2019 06:47 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Hell, I feel that way about this place.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Aug, 2019 06:59 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Id take up pinochle, that would complete the cirkles of hell.
0 Replies
 
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2019 03:25 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Afterlife is the matter of unseen, we can make guesses and will eventually find it out after death.

If everyone can see what afterlife is all about, everyone would be a believer.
This is just like if everyone is given a book to find answer to their questions, all of us would pass this particular test. Our life is a test but the book for answers will be shown after our death and that time we can all find answers to all unseen matters.

Now this does not mean that the matters of unseen are hard to be believed without seeing them. Ponder upon your own creation and you will come to a conclusion that you are created for a certain purpose by a higher power, the One who controls everything else. Ponder upon the justice system of this world and the concept of afterlife will start making sense. Ask for help from your creator (name Him whatever you want) and if you are sincere, He will show you the way.

All the best!
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Aug, 2019 08:51 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
HabibUrrehman wrote:

Afterlife is the matter of unseen, we can make guesses and will eventually find it out after death.




Unless there is no afterlife, and won't know it because we're dead.

I don't make any quesses about it at all, as it doesn't exist.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2019 07:12 am
@HabibUrrehman,
She's been there, done that?
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2019 09:59 am
@HabibUrrehman,
Going with your idea that there is an afterlife I am afraid I would hopefully have a book with more questions then a book of answers...closure would kill me for good! And while I am sure I want to die at some point, body and soul from your pov, if I had to live I rather have a bunch ton of questions then answers...oh the boredom of living forever with everything explained already...
Anyway, ty for your advice and all the best to you and your own life!
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2019 10:12 am
To the point of the OP, what is Life, two small sentences:

Either rock are like life and we live in at a different time scale, or life is just like rocks computing the sunlight and the shadow in them. Either way on rails we go!

PS - I don't want to know what is like to be a Bat but rather what is like to be a rock!
0 Replies
 
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2019 01:29 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
My friend you are comparing the needs of a temporary world and temporary body to a world which is eternal. Life after death is eternal and hence have different physical body and different needs to suit an eternal world.

As I said earlier, you just need to ponder on your own creation. Do you think human beings who are so complex in their creation are created for nothing? There is a reason why death is a reality which no one can deny and it is for us to ponder on our purpose in life and ponder upon what is on the other end of death. It is not impossible for God to give us life after death. Is not He the one who has created us from nothing already? That's why I say this again, ponder on your own creation. Watch videos of how human body is developed inside the womb and how we grow up after we are born into this world. How we get strength day by day and then how we start getting weak day by day after certain age. Does not this all point to a temporary world? We all want to be happy and despite our all efforts we can never find absolute happiness in this world. We all want to live for-ever ( only if that's possible and if we can stay health). There is a reason for having these desires, these desired are to be fulfilled in life after death based on our actions. People with good deeds will have an eternal life and everlasting happiness. People with evil deeds will have everlasting life with the worst torture you can imagine.

Think about the justice system we have? How do you justify the evils actions of certain people? How would you sentence someone who killed millions? Even if you hang that person, will that even do justice? Without the concept of life after death, you can't even convince someone to do good things. What's the point of doing good things if there is no reward for doing good. People may do good thing to feel good or to obey the law but someone who is very powerful and have no belief in life after death will do all evils which would benefit him/her.

Don't you see how rain gives life to dead land, is not it possible for God to resurrect us from dead in the same fashion?

Anyways all you need is to think and ponder on things around you, the answer may be right in front of your face but you may not want to accept it.

All the best!
0 Replies
 
HabibUrrehman
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2019 02:55 pm
@chai2,
Dear sister,

There are many logical reasons I can put forth to validate the belief in life after death but let me focus only on one which has to do with peace and human values in our lives. This concept of peace and moral values is useless without the concept of hereafter. For example, Is robbing a good or an evil act?

A normal balanced person would say it is evil. How would a person who does not believe in the hereafter convince a powerful and influential criminal that robbing is evil?
Suppose I am the most powerful and influential criminal in the world. At the same time I am an Intelligent and a logical person. I say that robbing is good because it helps me lead a luxurious life. Thus robbing is good for me.
If anybody can put forward a single logical argument as to why it is evil for me, I will stop immediately. People usually put forward the following arguments:

1. The person who is robbed will face difficulties
Some may say that the person who is robbed will face difficulties. I certainly agree that it is bad for the person who is robbed. But it is good for me. If I rob a thousand dollars, I can enjoy a good meal at a 5 star restaurant.

2. Someone may rob you
Some people argue that someday I may be robbed. No one can rob me because I am a very powerful criminal and I have hundreds of bodyguards. I can rob anybody but nobody can rob me. Robbing may be a risky profession for a common man but not for an influential person like me.

3. The police may arrest you
Some may say, if you rob, you can be arrested by the police. The police cannot arrest me because I have the police on my payroll. I have the ministers on my payroll. I agree that if a common man robs, he will be arrested and it will be bad for him, but I am an extraordinarily influential and powerful criminal.

4. Its easy money
Some may say its easy money and not hard-earned money. I agree completely that it is easy money, and that is one of the main reasons why I rob. If a person has the option of earning money the easy as well as the hard way, any logical person would choose the easy way.

5. It is against humanity

Some may say it is against humanity and that a person should care for other human beings. I counter argue by asking as to who wrote this law called ‘humanity’ and why should I follow it?
This law may be good for the emotional and sentimental people but I am a logical person and I see no benefit in caring for other human beings.

6. It is a selfish act

Some may say that robbing is being selfish. It is true that robbing is a selfish act; but then why should I not be selfish? It helps me enjoy life.

Give me one logical reason why it is bad to rob? This is why you can never achive justice in this world what law you put in place. How do you justify Hitler's killing of millions of Jews. Do you really think, that after his death he is not answerable for any bad things he did?
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2019 03:11 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
First off, I'm not your sister.

Second, I didn't bother to read anything after your first sentence, as "validating belief" in anything is just serarching for anything that will support your fantasy.

There is no afterlife, because life in your body is over, and you are dead. That's it.

HabibUrrehman
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2019 03:29 pm
@chai2,
I used word sister to give you respect and if that bothers you I will not use it again for you.
By saying you dont believe in life hereafter you are supporting your own fantasy without any logical proof. In my case, I gave one example which you did not even bother to read, perhaps reading that would have helped. It is among the basic etiquette to read/listen other persons view and then deny or accept with logic. As I said in my previous post, give me a one reason to do anything good if there is no life after death.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2019 04:21 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
The burden of proof is on the person asserting something exists, i.e. an afterlife.

Reading any fantasy based bedtime story doesn't mean a thing.

The reason to do good if there is no life after death?

What would be the reason to do evil if there is no life after death?

There is far more reasons to do what is good, right, moral ethical to help a fellow being, whether they are human or or not, than there ever could be to be harmful. The very idea that anyone would have to ask what any reason to do good would be is presents as someone who lives in fear, and in a bubble. I don't live in any fear of "afterward", or any anticipation.

Why would anyone only do good out of some fantasy of what will happen when you no longer exist?
What a horrible person that would be.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2019 04:35 pm
We do good, because we have evolved to have empathy for the people around us. As has been pointed out, we don't need rewards or threats to be good.
chai2
 
  0  
Reply Wed 28 Aug, 2019 06:59 pm
@edgarblythe,
I'll admit, I went back and quickly scanned all these "logical reasons" people would not do good.

What a lot of work had to be done to create, direct, write what hypothetical and imaginary people would say and do, and why. That's not even getting to the fact that most people who do bad things actually believe in a god.
What nonsense.

So much easier to look around at actual people, who regardless of belief or lack of, simply live a life doing good things, and avoiding doing bad.



"The growing good of the world is partly dependent on unhistoric acts; and that things are not so ill with you and me as they might have been, is half owing to the number who lived faithfully a hidden life, and rest in unvisited tombs." ~ Marian Evans, aka George Eliot, atheist but amazingly good woman who believed first and formost in people and community.



0 Replies
 
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Aug, 2019 02:04 pm
@chai2,
Since you also live in your fantasy world and bubble called atheism, perhaps it was too difficult for you to understand a simple example I gave.

The example I gave was purposefully made for a powerful person who does not BELIEVE in life after death and hence he does only what benefits him. Apply thing example to our powerful rulers. Take Trump for example, he does everything what benefits him alone at the cost of so many innocent and helpless people. Is there anything which will stop him from doing what he is doing? I don't think anything will. You may say he is Christian, but saying and living like a Christian are too different things. I doubt if Trump will ever offer his other check....

One example of such evil person I gave was of Hitlor, how would you justify his killing of millions. What punishment you can give him in this life for killing million people. Life sentence at the most? Well that is the same punishment for killing one person or killing millions, how do you call that justice?

On the other hand a person who dedicated his/her entire life to help needy, take Mother Teresa for example. Do you think a person who lived all his life doing good things and died a natural death got full reward of their good deeds in this world? Compare the life of mother Teresa to Hitler and do you really think after death they both became dust and there is nothing much to life after death?

When we talk about day of Judgement, hell and heavens; there is no threat to anyone. God has told if you do good things and obey Him, you will earn the paradise and if you dont then you will have the punishment of hell. You and everyone else have heard about it. It is your choice to belive in it or not. I don'e miss anything by believing in lifeafter death. However, there is a chance that you may be wrong and end up facing something you denied all your life.
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Aug, 2019 02:07 pm
@edgarblythe,
That's against human nature. We have rewards and punishment system in this life to control the people as well. Imagine if for one day alone an agreement is made that no one will be punished for doing anything, do you think we have evolved enough to stay at peace and not harm each other to benefit ourselves?
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Aug, 2019 03:10 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Yeah, pretty much.


BTW, Mother Teresa? That's a laugh. She was a complete fraud.

I can accept that you, like many people believe that if there was no punishment there would be instant mayhem. What kind of life is it that someone only avoids doing bad because of punishment?

If I thought that, than I would have to be walking around every day believing if there was no punishment, within moments I would be raped, killed and dismemebered.

I rape, kill, steal exactly as much as I want to. Which is not at all. The vast majority of people are like that.

I guess you are walking through life constantly fighting for control of yourself to not do those things, because of fear of punishment.

Yep, Hitler and Mother Teresa, along with everyone else who has died are all exactly in the same place. In the environment.

izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Aug, 2019 11:35 am
@HabibUrrehman,
HabibUrrehman wrote:

On the other hand a person who dedicated his/her entire life to help needy, take Mother Teresa for example.


Not a very nice person at all.

HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Aug, 2019 12:33 pm
@izzythepush,
First of all my point was just to mention that there are/were many great people who dedicated their entire lives to help others. Some of them only did to get praise from people, some of them did purely for their own benefits and some did purely to please their Lord.

I believe in doing things solely for the pleasure of Allah and not for the show off. Allah knows what was in her heart and He is Just. She will get what she deserves, not an iota more or less.
0 Replies
 
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Aug, 2019 12:49 pm
@chai2,
You are right, I gave a wrong example. But you know what I mean. It is not possible to have the same end for an innocent person and an oppressor. It is not possible to have same end for a good person and for a bad person.

In this worldly life we have justice system in place. There is punishment for doing certain things which we consider as bad and sometimes there is reward for doing good things ( at least you feel good or public recognises one for doing good deeds etc). If you see a high way patrol officer driving on high way then all of a sudden all veicles start slowing down and follow the laws established for speed limit. If there is no high way patrol, we often see people go way above speed limits. This is human nature and thats how we work. We may be good when we don't have power, but once we have power over certain things and we know we are not answerable, corruption kicks in and that's how we start violating rights of others.

Lifeafter death is not to scare anyone. It is in accordance to our nature so we can be more watchful of how we deal with others. Anyways, I understood your point of view and you know what I belive in. There is no point in arguing about this. You got your belief system and I am happy with mine. Thanks for your feedback.
 

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