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Irony

 
 
Reply Sun 26 Jan, 2003 01:53 pm
The Czech-born, British reared playwright Tom Stoppard was interviewed on his 60th birthday this past summer. The interviewer asked his opinion of a variety of subjects including his opinion of several countries. Of the United State he said, "They don't have an irony button on their machine."

The quote is as close as I recall.
Care to comment/expand/example/disagree?
In connection with politics/art/etc.?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 8,104 • Replies: 103
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JoanneDorel
 
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Reply Tue 28 Jan, 2003 01:21 pm
Irony is an implied discrepancy between what is said and what is meant.

Three kinds of irony:

1. verbal irony is when an author says one thing and means something else.

2. dramatic irony is when an audience perceives something that a character in the literature does not know.

3. irony of situation is a discrepency between the expected result and actual results
.
Example: "A fine thing indeed!" he muttered to himself.

Richard Cory
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Dartagnan
 
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Reply Tue 28 Jan, 2003 01:37 pm
Good explanation, Joanne.

Off the top of my head: Naive folks have trouble discerning irony. Compared to Europeans, Americans tend to be more literal, less able to appreciate layers of meaning. Hence less of an ability to pick up on irony. Of course, this is a gross exaggeration, since there are Americans and Europeans on both sides of the irony fence, but traditionally, this has been true.

Henry James's novels often featured these sorts of Americans going to Europe and encountering a more sophisticated culture. And then the fun begins! :wink:
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JoanneDorel
 
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Reply Tue 28 Jan, 2003 02:47 pm
D'art isn't that the truth regarding James' work.

The Bard's Merchant of Venice is also a good example. When Shylock determines to force the enforcement the law without any consideration for mitigating circumstances and exact his pound of flesh he loses all that he loves, his daughter and his religion.
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Dartagnan
 
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Reply Wed 29 Jan, 2003 01:10 pm
Good example. Of course, irony can be heavy-handed in art, too. Take a typical "Twilight Zone". After a while, it was fun to figure out what twist would occur at the end, such as the episode in which Burgess Meredith plays a bookish man who wants to read all day. Somehow the world ends, except for him and his books. Now he'll have all the time he needs to read--with no distractions. Only, of course, he breaks his eyeglasses as he's about to dig into a favorite tome. No more reading for him!
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LarryBS
 
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Reply Wed 29 Jan, 2003 08:58 pm
Episode 8: "Time Enough at Last" Exclamation
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JoanneDorel
 
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Reply Wed 29 Jan, 2003 11:09 pm
Recognizing Irony or How Not to be Duped When Reading
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dlowan
 
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Reply Thu 30 Jan, 2003 02:19 am
I confess, we in Oz say you Americans have had an irony bypass.

This is very unfair, of course, as many Americans can appreciate it - it is in your popular entertainment - films, TV - that it is very conspicuous by its absence, at least to an Australian or British eye...
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Dartagnan
 
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Reply Thu 30 Jan, 2003 01:49 pm
On the other hand, "Twilight Zone" could be brilliant. "An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge" being the best example of irony that makes you think. But "Occurrence" was a French production, if memory serves, not typical "TZ" fodder.

Dlowan, you may be right about the irony bypass in the US. Some here probably think irony is unpatriotic.
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dyslexia
 
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Reply Thu 30 Jan, 2003 01:59 pm
we all all the irony we can stand:

Number of physicians in the US: 700,000
Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year: 120,000
Accidental deaths per physician: 0.171
(US Dept. Health & Human Services)

Number of gun owners in the US: 80,000,000
Number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups): 1,500
Accidental deaths per gun owner: 0.0000188

Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

"FACT: Not everyone has a gun, but everyone has at least one doctor". Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban doctors before this gets out of hand! Remember: guns don't kill people, doctors do!!
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Dartagnan
 
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Reply Thu 30 Jan, 2003 02:37 pm
Yeah, tell your friends to reach for a handgun the next time they experience symptoms of cardiac arrest...
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dyslexia
 
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Reply Thu 30 Jan, 2003 02:43 pm
A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical
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LarryBS
 
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Reply Thu 20 Feb, 2003 01:01 am
SAN FRANCISCO MAN BECOMES FIRST AMERICAN TO GRASP SIGNIFICANCE OF IRONY -

Jay Fullmer, 38, yesterday became the first American to get to grips with the concept of irony. "It was weird" Fullmer said. "I was in London and like, talking to this guy and it was raining and he pulled a face and said, "great weather, eh?" and I thought "wait a minute, no way is it great weather". Fullmer then realised that the other man's 'mistake' was in fact deliberate. Fullmer, who is 39 next month and married with two children, aged 8 and 3, plans to use irony himself in future. "I'm like using it all the time" he said. "Last weekend I was grilling steaks and I burned them to sh!t and I said "hey, great weather!".
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margo
 
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Reply Thu 20 Feb, 2003 01:08 am
dyslexia
Shocked Laughing Confused Razz
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steissd
 
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Reply Thu 20 Feb, 2003 01:24 am
I do not think that inability to recognize irony is a sign of low intellect. I was told by some man that spent several years in Japan, that Japanese abstained from any irony, and got him literally when he attempted to "kid" with them. There must be something in ethnic psychology that refers to irony perception level, and the latter can be low even in the highly developed nations.
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Thu 20 Feb, 2003 02:05 am
The question is, steissd, if your friend adressed them in Japanese and/or just translated phrases.
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dlowan
 
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Reply Thu 20 Feb, 2003 02:06 am
Steissd - you just said that not recognizing irony IS a sign of low intellect - by dint of your double negative! Is this what you meant?

I confess, I think your statement, as it stands, is correct - bu tthen I would - I love irony.
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steissd
 
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Reply Thu 20 Feb, 2003 02:07 am
He spoke English, he does not know Japanese. He is an Israeli software engineer, and he participated in installation of Israeli equipment in some Japanese telecommunications company.
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dlowan
 
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Reply Thu 20 Feb, 2003 02:09 am
Huh?
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steissd
 
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Reply Thu 20 Feb, 2003 02:09 am
No, Ms Lowan, it was a typo, and it has been recently corrected; thanks for attracting my attention to it.
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