17
   

Here's what happened to people without health insurance since Obamacare

 
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2016 11:34 am
@revelette2,
ahhhh maybe that's how my dad got free treatment

he probably qualifies as a low-income German pensioner as he gets a tiny pension from Germany (though how the ambulance/hospital etc would know that is a mystery)
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2016 11:39 am
What's considered a long waiting list?

Here in America, with insurance companies and all that jazz, I still have to wait for appointments.

I went last week to see my general practitioner, I had to wait one day for an appointment (I could have walked in and saw someone else sooner). He had to refer me to a specialist, that specialist can't see me for 3 weeks.

Is that a long wait?
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2016 11:44 am
@maporsche,
we can check wait times for a number of specialties here

http://www.ontariowaittimes.com/Surgerydi/en/PublicMain.aspx

some are ridiculous

355 days for hip replacement surgery is the worst (but you can pick a different hospital and book in about 2 months - and be on an on-call list as well)
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2016 11:45 am
@ehBeth,
My travel buddy is a Canadian who now lives in Mexico. He goes to Thailand every year for his complete physical that includes an MRI for about $100, and they have the latest equipment and doctors trained in the US.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2016 11:46 am
@cicerone imposter,
Why would he do that? that would all be free for him in Canada
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2016 11:58 am
@ehBeth,
I'm not sure, because he holds dual citizenship; Canada and Mexico. He owns a realty company in Mexico, and sells mostly to Americans and Canadians. Maybe, there's a woman there that he's attracted to. Wink
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2016 12:00 pm
@ehBeth,
Maybe, this is the reason.
http://www.bcliving.ca/health/mri-scans-waiting-for-public-health-care-vs-paying-for-a-private-mri-clinic

Quote:
Private MRI Clinics – A Viable Option for MRI Scans?

If your health concerns are serious, and you need an MRI scan for your brain, a full body scan or a specific bone scan, waiting over a year in pain and in fear is not an option.

Innes says he’s started to refer patients to the many private MRI scanning labs that have opened around the province. While this means a near-immediate appointment, it also means you have to shoulder the cost, and it’s no small amount; an MRI scan costs around $699 in Vancouver and about $875 in Victoria.

While this cost may be acceptable for some, it’s prohibitively expensive for others. The social safety net that is Canada’s health care system was designed to ensure everyone is able to access necessary exams. But what do you do when you simply can’t wait the typical 12 to 18 months’ delay for your MRI scan? This list of considerations will help you decide which way to go.
saab
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2016 12:04 pm
@ehBeth,
He might have a small card, which shows he is a pensionar.
If yes he is probably registrered at some Social Office for pensions and then they have him.
saab
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2016 12:08 pm
@maporsche,
In Denmark they try to get the waitinglists down below three months.
In Germany it is often three months if it is not urgent.
In Sweden visit should be within 7 days for a specialist within 3 months.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2016 12:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Population has nothing to do with universal health care.

Population has everything to do with it and how to pay for it. The # of people who actually pay for the system vs the # of people who use the system. This is the primary reason the ACA is failing, not enough people are getting the insurance to cover the other people who are sick and using the coverage.

CO is has on the ballot a proposal to switch over to a universal healthcare system. The problem is the amount they want to raise the taxes to pay for it. My income tax would go from just over 4% to just over 14%. That is a 250% increase in my income taxes! That is just at the state level, what happens to my federal income taxes if the same thing were to happen. As you can guess, I'm voting against the proposal.

Quote:
The US is the richest country in the world. It should take care of our own citizens before we spend billions on the military that supposedly polices the world.

We already spend more on health care than we do on the military.
Quote:
The United States federal budget contains a number of expenditures, which include mandatory programs such as the Medicare and Social Security programs, military spending, and discretionary funding for Cabinet Departments (e.g., United States Department of Justice) and agencies (e.g., Securities & Exchange Commission).

During FY2014, the federal government spent $3.504 trillion on a budget or cash basis, up $50 billion or 1% vs. FY2013 spending of $3.455 trillion. Major categories of FY 2014 spending included:

Social Security ($845B or 24% of spending),
Healthcare such as Medicare and Medicaid ($831B or 24%),
Defense Department ($596B or 17%),
non-defense discretionary spending used to run federal Departments and Agencies ($583B or 17%),
other mandatory programs such as food stamps and unemployment compensation ($420B or 12%) and interest ($229B or 6.5%).[1]
Expenditures are classified as mandatory, with payments required by specific laws, or discretionary, with payment amounts renewed annually as part of the budget process. Expenditures averaged 20.4% GDP over the past 40 years, generally ranging +/-2% GDP from that level. The 2014 spend was 20.3% GDP, versus 2013 spend of 20.8% GDP and a recent 2009 peak of 24.4% GDP.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expenditures_in_the_United_States_federal_budget
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2016 12:32 pm
@saab,
Nope. No card.

He thought it was fantastic that they refused his insurance information as well as his offer to pay cash. They thought it was interesting that he'd lived there 50+ years earlier and the doctor he visited for a follow-up on the stitches (also no charge) introduced him to a lot of people around the office and building.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2016 12:34 pm
@cicerone imposter,
That's old stuff - and it's for private MRI's which have pretty much disappeared here as we got a lot more equipment for the hospitals.

If he is booking his MRI and appointment in advance, there is no charge. It is covered. The only fee (which can be recovered) is if you want an immediate MRI.

I can get free non-emergency MRI's for people within weeks.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2016 12:35 pm
@cicerone imposter,
If it's Thailand he's going to , anything is possible re type of interest.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2016 01:06 pm
@ehBeth,
You are well informed! LOL
I have traveled to Thailand several times, and the first time I was there, a guy approached me and asked if I wanted a woman. I have also observed Japanese men (from Japan) with young women in Thailand.

BTW, on my first visit to Thailand (many, many, years ago), I was taken to a furniture factory outside of the city, and I bought a bar made from teak wood carved with the Emperor's dragon all around it. It's now sitting in our living room with many bottles of liquor in it. Since none of our friends drink, most of the bottles are still unopened. At least it's a beautiful piece of furniture.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2016 01:16 pm
@Miller,
No argument there. If the cost of an event is high and the probability of its occurrence is low than some form of cost/risk spreading - i.e. insurance is both advisable and economic. Predictable costs however, whether medical or otherswise are more efficiently paid for directly when they are needed.

I fully agree that the incidence of breast cancer (and others as well, affecting both men and women, is sufficiently high to warrant periodic screening. That doesn't necessarily mean that every one should be in all insurance policies. Indeed most policies have specified frequencies. age limits and preexisting condition indicators that establish their eligibility for payment.

Insurance companies (and employers who negotiate coverage) are bad enough in this area. The government is generally worse - slower to respond to emerging facts, and more rigid & inflexible. Many here appear to suppose that a public health care system will be some kind of panacea making all problems right. That is an illusion: as a minimum such a system will involve a major league loss of freedom and control over our own lives for all of us.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2016 01:20 pm
@cicerone imposter,
No. Germany mandates health insurance (generally through private providers) for all citizens. They do not have free public health care as Revelette claimed.
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2016 03:30 pm
@georgeob1,
Nothing in life is totally free, I have already said they have also have private health insurance. You never back your statements up, you just make claims without any proof whatsoever and expect everyone to think you are correct just because you put it in a post. It doesn't work that way, George. You have to back your statements up or it is not proven to be correct. So far, you have proven squat as usual.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/topics/international-health-policy/countries/germany



Quote:
The German Health Care System

Who is covered?

Coverage is universal for all legal residents. About 85 percent of the population is covered by social health insurance and 10 percent by substitutive private health insurance. The remainder (e.g., soldiers, policemen) are covered under special programs. Undocumented immigrants are covered by social security in case of illness. All employed citizens (and other groups such as pensioners) earning less than €4,237.50 (US$5,422.80) per month (€50,850.00 [US$65,074.00] per year) as of 2012 are mandatorily covered by SHI, and their dependents (nonearning spouses and children) are covered free of charge. Individuals whose gross wages exceed the threshold, civil servants, and the self-employed can choose either to remain in the publicly financed scheme on a voluntary basis (and 75% of them do) or to purchase private health insurance.



georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Sat 10 Sep, 2016 12:49 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

Nothing in life is totally free, I have already said they have also have private health insurance. You never back your statements up, you just make claims without any proof whatsoever and expect everyone to think you are correct just because you put it in a post. It doesn't work that way, George. You have to back your statements up or it is not proven to be correct. So far, you have proven squat as usual.


Calm yourself. Self-serving and unjustified (by the facts) indignation is bad for your mental health. You provided us with a list of nations that provide "free health care" to all. I countered saying it was instead a list of countries with government organized health schemes, and not necessarily free to all participants, either. I added that with Medicaid, Medicare and other like programs the U.S. could well have been aded to the list, and noted that Germany's progran didn't fit your definition.

You have now responded with a very wordy description of Germany's program that clearly demonstrated that you were indeed wrong and my statement was accurate.

How the hell does that justify your nonsensical, and, in the case at hand, ludicrous claim that I never back my claims up, while you do? Instead you cut and paste stuff here you don't understand yourself and then describe it inaccurately to boot.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Sep, 2016 02:12 pm
@georgeob1,
Like Glueboy you just find it impossible to be honest.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Sep, 2016 02:19 pm
@georgeob1,
I am not excited nor a horse to be told to be calm. Nice try though.

In any event, coverage in Germany is universal and it is not here because the mandate is not enforced. 85% are covered with government health care with only 10% covered by private insurance in Germany but everyone has insurance and if you can't afford it, you still get covered free of charge. There is still too many people not participating in our health care exchanges who need to be because when they get sick and the cost is too much for them, the tax payers still end up paying for them. Germany is a lot of like our health care only better because it is all regulated with hard and fast rules and they don't have conservatives trying to sabotage it.

The following is a good piece I left in a post a few days ago on what we can do to save Obamacare.

Insurers Can Make Obamacare Work, But They Need Help From Congress

Quote:
Regulators could take steps to help resolve that conundrum. For one thing, they could be more aggressive in enforcing the “individual mandate,” the requirement that individuals buy insurance or face financial penalties. That rule is key to making sure that healthier (and therefore cheaper-to-insure) patients buy insurance, helping to offset the added cost of the sicker, more expensive patients who now have access to insurance under Obamacare.

Regulators could also limit the use of extremely expensive drugs such as new hepatitis C medications that cost as much as $94,500 per patient. Molina already restricts the new drugs in some cases to patients for whom the virus has already caused liver scarring, a step many larger insurers haven’t yet taken.3

The government could also negotiate the price of these drugs — a political nonstarter. Or it could require insurers to share the cost of pharmaceutical losses, as they already do for losses associated with high-risk patients.4


Such regulatory steps could help in the short term. Permanently fixing the problem, however, will likely require Congress to increase subsidies so that the policies offered on the exchanges will be more attractive to young, healthy workers. There is precedent for Congress adding more money to fix medical programs. The last two big expansions of Medicare — Medicare Advantage in the 1990s and Medicare Part D in the early 2000s — both faced what many feared was a death spiral, similar to the concerns Obamacare now faces. But according to a new paper by Jack Hoadley and Sabrina Corlette of Georgetown University’s Health Policy Institute, Congress raised reimbursements to make those health care markets healthy.

Public perception of the Medicare system once “had the feel we have this year — ‘Oh my goodness, the program is falling apart,’” Hoadley said. “But over the next few years, payment levels got increased and plans began coming back in.”

Similar congressional action to save the ACA will be a hard sell in the current political environment. But at $250 billion yearly, the tax exclusion for employer-paid health insurance costs six times what Obamacare individual-market subsidies do, offsetting 30 percent of premium costs, according to the Congressional Budget Office. The money that United, Humana and Aetna lost on Obamacare totals less than 1 percent of that. The bottom line is that Obamacare can be fixed. The problem is deciding to do it.

 

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