Here's what happened to people without health insurance since Obamacare

@Baldimo,

Population has nothing to do with universal health care. The US is the richest country in the world. It should take care of our own citizens before we spend billions on the military that supposedly polices the world.

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@revelette2,

revelette2 wrote:

Rather than trotting out your conservative talking points, why don't you read why Obamcare is struggling right now? In every article I have read, most insurance companies point to healthy people shying away from buying insurance as the main problem. It simply leaves less revenue and it is not hard to see how that would happen. However, I think they are raising the penalty for not buying insurance and that might help the struggling insurance companies in the exchanges if people see that paying for insurance might be better than trying to buck the system.

And whose talking points are you trotting out?

Would you like to put some money on whether the government will actually apply penalties (disguised as taxes) in sufficient amounts to induce the young and healthy to buy insirance policies larded with all the extras that the government pols & bureaucrats deemed as "fair and socially desirable" ?

That is obviously the most direct and immediate effect on the insurers cost pools. Now if the government is successful in getting everyone to participate we will quickly find that the demand is higher than the supply.

Insurance is properly for unlikely but extraordinary large costs with a low probability od occurrance. That is exactly the type of insurance the poor and young & Healthy need. Unfortunately Obamacare outlaws such coverage. Using insurance schemes to cover predictable and routine costs is merely a waste of money

In the unlikely event that the government actually forces everyone to participate, we will find a new sea of problems as the demand for services rises. You can write and ask President Maduro of Venezuela how well government imposed price controls work when the supply of something is less than the demand for it.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

I wasn't using talking points, merely an article in the news, plenty more where that come, just try sometime getting out of your comfort zone. The following is a list of countries with free health care something I think we should strive for if Obamacare is unsustainable.

Quote:

List of Countries with free health care includes

Country
Start Date of Universal Health Care
Norway 1912
New Zealand 1938
Japan 1938
Germany 1941
Belgium 1945
United Kingdom 1948
Kuwait 1950
Sweden 1955
Bahrain 1957
Brunei 1958
Canada 1966
Netherlands 1966
Austria 1967
United Arab Emirates 1971
Finland 1972
Slovenia 1972
Denmark 1973
Luxembourg 1973
France 1974
Australia 1975
Ireland 1977
Italy 1978
Portugal 1979
Cyprus 1980
Greece 1983
Spain 1986
South Korea 1988
Iceland 1990
Hong Kong 1993
Singapore 1993
Switzerland 1994
Israel 1995

I haven't heard of too many complaints from these countries, I don't see why we can't do the same.

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@revelette2,

I knew there was a list someplace. Thanks for posting it. What surprises me most are the years they implemented universal health care. Norway 1912. I wasn't even born.

1 Reply

@revelette2,

revelette2 wrote:

I wasn't using talking points, merely an article in the news, plenty more where that come, just try sometime getting out of your comfort zone. The following is a list of countries with free health care something I think we should strive for if Obamacare is unsustainable.

Do you believe everything you read "in the news"? I have a great deal of experience dealing with people whose ideas and perspectives are different from my own, and have on many occasions learned to change my understandings of many things. I am quite comfortable dealing with ideas that conflict with my own. Is it really necessary for you to salt every response with this stuff?

I don't know whare you got the list of "countries with free health care" you posted above, but I do know that it is inaccurate in many elements. I suspect your list is really one identifying countries with some form of government mandated health care or insurance applicable to most inhabitants. Germany, for example does not have "free health care" : instead it has a government mandated insurance program with specifies minimum standards which everyone must buy. Even the much vaunted UK PHS is not "free" - indeed it consumes the largest single share of the tax revenues of that nation. Now with Obamacare, Medicaid, Medicare, etc I don't understand why the United States was omitted from your list.

Perhaps you should check your facts.

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@revelette2,

What do you mean with free health care?
Swedes pay over the taxes for their health insurance
As long as you are under 20 you usually do not pay anything
Different parts of the country you pay different payments for seeing a doctor.
Usually it costs SEK 100 a day to be in hospital.
Glasses you have to pay fully and the same with dentist.

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@saab,

Germany has health insurances and how much you pay I think depends on your income, what kind of work you have and what kind of insuarance.
At least you pay into a health insurance.

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@saab,

Wow! That's less than $20/day. In Silicon Valley where I live, we pay a little over $100/day, but I'm a senior and we have what is called Senior Advantage. It's a real bargain, because all the doctors, specialists, RN's, X-ray machines, and techs come to our room, and most of the doctors and techs were trained at Stanford or University of San Francisco.

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@cicerone imposter,

You cannot compare like that.
A fair comparasing is income, how much your insurance costs compared with how high the taxes are in Sweden for health. About 13% of your taxes go to health. Your taxes are about 33% of your income.
We do have good doctors in Sweden, but long waiting lists to get an appointment

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Quote:

Using insurance ... to cover predictable and routine costs is merely a waste of money

In the case of breast cancer in women, this disorder has a high probability of occurring in women who carry a specific gene. Today, this gene is well known and assays for it's presence are routinely used in certain ethnic groups who may be at risk for breast cancer.

In addition to gene ID , especially in women who lack the gene or even a family history of breast cancer, there is still a probability of a woman developing breast cancer as she ages .

Thus, for all women it is critical to have regular mammograms, have their breasts examined manually by an MD ( and do self-examination), know their family history and know whether their ethnicity is tied to a specific gene mutation ( leading to breast cancer).

Insurance will pay for a yearly mammogram. For specific ethnic groups , at high risk for developing breast cancer, insurance will also pay for a genetic molecular analysis.

Insurance also pays for a yearly physical with an internist, who will also conduct a manual breast exam.

In case, breast cancer is detected, insurance pays ( if needed)for surgery, a biopsy and chemotherapy.

It's been said over and over again, that the likelihood of an average woman t developing breast cancer ( in the US) is about 1/8 ( depending on the report source). It is obvious, that each and every test listed above is routine and cost effective when preserving the health and well being of each and every woman. In the absence of affordable insurance, the only women (in the US)who could afford identification and treatment of breast cancer ( or any cancer for that matter) would be a select few from the upper middle class and the ultra wealthy.

Thus, coverage of predictable and routine costs, offered by an affordable health plan is not a waste of money, especially when it involves early detection and treatment of breast cancer in all women, because
the life and wellbeing of each and every woman matters.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Without insurance coverage, a day in a US hospital bills out at roughly $10,000 US (room/tx/staff/equipment). Always crazy to see those bills come across my desk and comparing them to bills from other countries.

When my dad needed hospital and then medical treatment while visiting Germany, there was no charge. That never happens in the US.

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@ehBeth,

I think the hospital did give me a bill that was ridiculously high, like over $10k, but my actual cost was about $1,000.
Most people couldn't afford to pay the full freight that hospitals now charge. When I worked, we had health insurance. Since I worked in management, I enrolled the employees with Kaiser HMO, and I'm still with Kaiser, because they have good doctors, and the hospital is only one block from where we live. We're now under Medicare, and our co-pay is very reasonable. I think it's $25 for a doctor's visit.

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@ehBeth,

Then you father must have had an insurance. You cannot go to a German hospital without an insuraance and not have to pay anything. That´s the way it is in northern Europe.

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@saab,

Many decades ago, while flying to Russia, I lost consciousness, and the flight attendant caught my fall. When I woke up, I was laying on the floor in the back of the plane with a couple of attendants and a doctor looking over me. The doctor said I should go see a doctor in Finland, so that was the first thing I did. Luckily for me, the staff at the hospital spoke English. I paid for the care, and was reimbursed by Kaiser upon my return home.

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@saab,

He offered his insurance information. It was declined. There was no charge for the treatment - through insurance or government plans.

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@cicerone imposter,

It looks like I forgot to leave a link. It took a bit but I found it again.

Pros and Cons of Universal Health Care

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@saab,

Well, the money has to come somewhere, it makes sense most countries would have to pay for it with taxes. Also, pretty sure Germany uses private insurance companies, seems like I read that somewhere not too long ago. Perhaps we should see how they do it and model our system after theirs. (US)

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

I did, left the link where I got my information, I forgot earlier. Perhaps you can read it and tell me if any of their facts are wrong?

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@revelette2,

I think Walter said they have universal health insurance in Germany supplemented by private insurance.

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@cicerone imposter,

Yeah, I remember him saying something like that. Not exactly sure what his wording was and it is important with Walter to remember his wording.

Anyway, I think it is a little more complicated in regards to Germany health care. (wish we had something like these countries)

Health Care in Germany

Quote:

The German Health Care System

Who is covered?

Coverage is universal for all legal residents. About 85 percent of the population is covered by social health insurance and 10 percent by substitutive private health insurance. The remainder (e.g., soldiers, policemen) are covered under special programs. Undocumented immigrants are covered by social security in case of illness. All employed citizens (and other groups such as pensioners) earning less than €4,237.50 (US$5,422.80) per month (€50,850.00 [US$65,074.00] per year) as of 2012 are mandatorily covered by SHI, and their dependents (nonearning spouses and children) are covered free of charge. Individuals whose gross wages exceed the threshold, civil servants, and the self-employed can choose either to remain in the publicly financed scheme on a voluntary basis (and 75% of them do) or to purchase private health insurance.

source

1 Reply

Here's what happened to people without health insurance since Obamacare

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