15
   

Language and Propaganda - an example

 
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 02:40 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

If you can't challenge the claim made by facts and evidence, you,'re the one presenting hyperbole.

There were no facts or evidence - just claims.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 02:46 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

At a conservative rally in Alberta in the last week, the NDP (left) premier of the province was mentioned and cries of "Lock her up" rose from the crowd. There was no rational basis for such cries. Notley has only been in office for a year and a half and there are no legal issues outstanding or even suggested. These cries simply represented an ugly and authoritarian style of political thought/behavior among some local conservatives adopted from the current conservative trends in the US.

Alberta had been solidly conservative for a long time - 80 years of center right or right wing governance. It's a big oil producer and has ties to the oil producing groups in Texas, particularly. The Kochs have a huge financial investment in Alberta, for example. In the last election, few expected Notley to be victorious as a majority party. But her win was substantial and ended over 40 years of Progressive Conservative reign in the province.

The reason I bring this up here is because of the "lock her up" chants. This represents a style of politics that is extremely ugly and dangerous. It also represents another example of how particular propagandist memes and techniques are spread even across borders in this digital age.


Gosh ! We are so bad that we have even infected those virtuous Canadians (or Albertans if you prefer) with our failings. I'm sure there were no local Albertan political issues involved in all this - just imported American craziness. No doubt the Koch brothers are behind this as well.

I did love the use of "memes", ... so au currant and illuminating.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 02:52 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
if [blatham] was able to make a point in his own words.

But you know that's not the case, george. Over the years and recently, I've written lots of stuff in my own words where the first and last paragraphs are so distant from each other that they reside in different time zones.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 03:27 pm
@georgeob1,
Okay, refute the claims with facts. If you refute Polifacts statements or claims, provide proof they are untrue.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 03:30 pm
@blatham,
I think it likely that Pence was referring to the electoral college and the constitutionally prescribed procedure.

I believe Trump won 100% of the Presidency, and the Republicans decisive majorities in both Houses of Congress and continued gains in a rather one sided distribution of state Governments.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 03:32 pm
@georgeob1,
Yes, Trump won. Now, explain the benefits of Trump's wall and 35% tariff.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 07:33 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Neither exists yet. Explain it yourself.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 09:08 pm
And in keeping with authoritarian information control...

Quote:
The agreement legally bars transition staffers from disclosing info about major portions of the transition work, like policy briefings, personnel material, donor info, fundraising goals, budgets, contracts, or any draft research papers. It also demands that if anyone on the team suspects a colleague of leaking material, he or she must tell transition team leadership. And it gives the Trump team grounds to tell those who run afoul of the rules: “You’re fired.”

If anyone is caught giving away info about the transition, he or so could face a court order to force them to stop, the Trump transition NDA says. Paid staffers, consultants, and volunteers all had to sign the document, one source close to the transition said. A Trump spokesperson and incoming White House Counsel, Don McGahn, did not respond to requests for comment.
Because government is for those who control it
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 09:18 pm
@blatham,
This is utterly standard stuff in business transactions involving mergers or acquisitions, or even many joint venture setups. Your report would be more meaningful if it also contained a comparison with the same agreements from previous transitions. I doubt seriously that we would see many differences.

It's very easy to find fault and hyperventilate about this stuff when you don't know anything about it.

Taking the work of others out of context and using it to make some sort of point when you don't know the subject matter or the background for it is not good scholarship, and usually yields meaningless or misleading results. The latter may well have been the intent in your source material. (Indeed after checking your link, I think it is a near certainty.) Mere propaganda.
layman
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 09:27 pm
@georgeob1,
Yeah, it's amazing how Blathy can take something totally mundane and harmless, give it an inappropriate label, like "authoritarian," and think he has made some convincing argument for a truly ominous situation.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 09:31 pm
@layman,
He lives in a world of abstractions, and is largely unburdened with any real experience of them. As a result such flights may appear easy. The real world is much more complex, and filled with contradictions.

I can visualize how it may have appeared - as yet another indicator of the evil authoritarianism of the "movement concervatism" behind Trump. He probably suspects the Koch Brothers wrote the damn non disclosure agreement. (when, in fact, any damn corporate legal clerk has drafted hundreds).
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2016 08:50 am
@blatham,
Quote:
Flynn believes that Islam is “a malignant cancer” that is actually “a political ideology” that “hides behind this notion of it being a religion.”

I haven't developed much interest in the latest political debate but I truly believe this statement by Flynn is at the root of the U.S. bungling in the middle east. It's the same silly error Dawkins makes with his 'God Delusion' stuff.

Whether there is a God or not, national policy must be based on reality. By and large, and for whatever reason, those IS people actually believe that stuff and history says that isn't likely to change.
blatham
 
  3  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2016 09:20 am
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
national policy must be based on reality. By and large, and for whatever reason, those IS people actually believe that stuff and history says that isn't likely to change.

Two things here. Yes, clearly Islamic extremists do believe what they say. And, yes, they are seriously ugly in those beliefs and actions. But it's not the whole faith nor anything but a small minority. Yet a deep facet of the American right is its hunger for a apocalyptic enemy. The loss of the Soviet Union in this role made for a problem. Temporary solutions were found in gays, liberals, university professors and activist judges. Saddam provided another nice temporary target of wrath and punishment (and there were "targets" there as Rumsfeld put it) with the ancillary benefit of big profits to the war machine. Muslim extremists look to be a rather more agreeable hunger-satiating apocalyptic enemy for the American myth stories and for long-term warfare. It checks a bunch of boxes.

As to the need to base foreign policy on reality, yeah, you'd think that might be important. But as I was pointing to above, it is a matter of whose "reality" one is concerned with. If your goal is to satisfy immediate/short term political ends, this present American lunacy re Islam (for example, the brain dead alarums re America on the edge of falling under Sharia Law) works fine. We don't know what the middle east and north africa would look like had the Bush administration stayed out of Iraq. But it really is difficult to imagine how it might be worse than what is now going on.

That make sense?
layman
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2016 09:32 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:
A deep facet of the American right is its hunger for a apocalyptic enemy.

We don't know what the middle east and north africa would look like had the Bush administration stayed out of Iraq. But it really is difficult to imagine how it might be worse than what is now going on.

That make sense?


Uhh, no it don't. The only thing that "makes sense" about your post is that you want to lay all the blame for Muslim terrorism on America.

Figures, sho nuff, cheese-eater.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2016 09:51 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Quote:
national policy must be based on reality. By and large, and for whatever reason, those IS people actually believe that stuff and history says that isn't likely to change.

Two things here. Yes, clearly Islamic extremists do believe what they say. And, yes, they are seriously ugly in those beliefs and actions. But it's not the whole faith nor anything but a small minority.
That is demonstrably false. Islam, whether of the Shia or Sunni variety, has not yet made the historical transition to independent secular government. They exoerienced nothing comparable to the Reformation and the Enlightenment throught which Western civilization passed. The truth of this assertion is visible in the politics of nearly every Muslim country in the world. Religious control, intolerance of other faiths or the absence of Faith, the oppression nof women and rule by a corrupt self-serving elite are the norm from Algeria to Malaysia

blatham wrote:

Yet a deep facet of the American right is its hunger for a apocalyptic enemy. The loss of the Soviet Union in this role made for a problem. Temporary solutions were found in gays, liberals, university professors and activist judges. Saddam provided another nice temporary target of wrath and punishment (and there were "targets" there as Rumsfeld put it) with the ancillary benefit of big profits to the war machine. Muslim extremists look to be a rather more agreeable hunger-satiating apocalyptic enemy for the American myth stories and for long-term warfare. It checks a bunch of boxes.

From what journalistic screed did you get that little tidbit? It is merely very abstract but pithy nonsense that flies in the face of the historical facts. The evils perpetuated by Soviet style communism from Russia to China and the Captive former republics of Eastern Europe are all well documented. They were real events that claimed tens of millions of victims, and they were indeed a very serious threat to Western civiliczation - even in Canada where you live. The dysfunction of the governments of the Islamist world following the collapse of thre Ottoman Empite (largely at the hands of the British & Russian Empires) is a fact that is quite independent of American politics.

This crap is very illustrative of your very abstract, but shallow and uninformed view of history and events in the real world. You appear to see no difference between the journalistic reporting of something and actually knowing or understanding anything about the reality of it. Unburdened by facts or reality you are free to fabricate these vague abstract "theories" which you appear to see as real intellectual achievement and insight. The truth is they are laughable absurdities.

It appears tha Angela Merkel, Chancellor of Germany has, after some difficulty reached a different conclusion from yours after the experience of admitting hundreds of thousands of Muslim immigrants who appear to have little interest in Western culture, values or political norms.
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2016 10:08 am
@georgeob1,
Yes, dear.
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2016 10:09 am
@blatham,
Pathetic
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2016 10:13 am
Quote:
TRUMP’S FINANCES WILL REMAIN OPAQUE: Trump now says he sold off his stocks during the campaign, minimizing possible conflicts. But the Post points out this key context:

Quote:
Trump representatives have not provided records of stock transactions or other details since a financial-disclosure filing released in May. Over the past five months, Trump campaign officials gave no indication of the stock sale. Trump has also refused to release his tax returns, which would provide more detailed information about his financial holdings.
link
What the heck though. The man's a certified truth-teller.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2016 10:14 am
@georgeob1,
Get your manners back in and I'll talk with you.
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2016 10:19 am
@blatham,
Yeah, George, it's "bad manners" to disagree with Blathy, no matter how dispassionately expressed.

Now he will have to take refuge in the "safe space" which the ignore feature affords him. You're really mean, George.
0 Replies
 
 

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