15
   

Language and Propaganda - an example

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 12:09 pm
@layman,
You need to learn how to search for facts. Your misinformation affects people like yourself who fail to look for facts over fiction.
Here: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/oct/24/donald-trump/donald-trump-wrongly-says-14-percent-noncitizens-a/
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 12:12 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Ciceone, I think you should look more to your own too. Not all web sites alleging "facts" are truthful.
layman
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 12:15 pm
@georgeob1,
Yeah, George, the media has become accustomed to "controlling" the public by pushing left-wing propaganda on behalf of a democratic president. Now 70% of the public doesn't trust them and Trump has perfected of method of circumventing them and going directly to the very people who don't trust them.

What power are they going to be left with? How can they maintain influence now? Well, they can keep trumpeting the stale left-wing rhetoric by bashing Trump at every occasion, and try to hold onto their base that way, but....

Trump has the power to fight back and there are a lot more citizens than journalists. They runnin scared.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 12:32 pm
@layman,
It is very interesting to watch all this unfold. I don't wish to see the idiocy of our MSM recreated merely with another point of view, but frankly I doubt that will be the result. It appears that Trump is indeed executing a thoughtful strategy to force the media to let go of the profound bias (and growing detachment from the public) that has increasingly gripped them over our lifetimes.

First he bypassed them in the primary and subsequent campaign by becoming the story himself through sometimes outrageous statements. In so dong he got his message out by exploiting media biases and using them for his pourpose. Next he simply bypassed tem through social media and extensive personal experiences and exhausting e campaigning. (The comparisons with Harry Truman's 1948 campaign against Thomas Dewey - and the subsequent result - are very intriguing. After his victory he shocked the assembled medias Brahmins who, at their meeting expected to "coach" the poor misbehaving boy on the right way to deal with them, only to find Trump directly challenging them for their duplicity and hypocrisy. Now he is threatening to create a new structure to permanently bypass them.

I believe the strategy is brilliant and the effects on the media will be significant, beneficial, and lasting.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 12:32 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
What in the hell do you suppose has surrounded and protected our curent President for the past eight years and others of his ilk before him? The MSM has been serving precisely as a "surround sound superstructure" for Progressives & Democrats for the past five decades.

Yes, that is the foundational claim the sits beneath almost all modern right wing media. And it is repeated pretty much every hour of every day on these media outlets. It is the justification for whatever such media gets up to.

But as we've clarified before on numerous occasions, george, while I do and have been for a long while attending to a broad range of media sources including many right wing sources, you do not. You're not a student of media. You have opinions, but they aren't grounded in study.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 12:51 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

But as we've clarified before on numerous occasions, george, while I do and have been for a long while attending to a broad range of media sources including many right wing sources, you do not. You're not a student of media. You have opinions, but they aren't grounded in study.


Ah! Now I understand. After years of (sometimes episodic) searching for truth and understanding in History, literature, mathematics, physics, geology and in observing the actions of the men and women around me -- all in a broad variety of very diffrent and often unusually challenging situations -- I now realize I have been looking in the wrong places.

I should have paid more attention to the NYT editorial page, Maureen Dowd, Politico and all the lightweight political opinion pieces you so avidly frequent! THAT is where the truth can be found !!!

A novel idea that I don't think is shared by many serious people.

Do you appreciate just how stupid this sounds??? Your conceits and blindness astound me.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 01:13 pm
At a conservative rally in Alberta in the last week, the NDP (left) premier of the province was mentioned and cries of "Lock her up" rose from the crowd. There was no rational basis for such cries. Notley has only been in office for a year and a half and there are no legal issues outstanding or even suggested. These cries simply represented an ugly and authoritarian style of political thought/behavior among some local conservatives adopted from the current conservative trends in the US.

Alberta had been solidly conservative for a long time - 80 years of center right or right wing governance. It's a big oil producer and has ties to the oil producing groups in Texas, particularly. The Kochs have a huge financial investment in Alberta, for example. In the last election, few expected Notley to be victorious as a majority party. But her win was substantial and ended over 40 years of Progressive Conservative reign in the province.

The reason I bring this up here is because of the "lock her up" chants. This represents a style of politics that is extremely ugly and dangerous. It also represents another example of how particular propagandist memes and techniques are spread even across borders in this digital age.


blatham
 
  3  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 01:21 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Do you appreciate just how stupid this sounds??? Your conceits and blindness astound me.

As I've said, feel free to ignore anything I contribute here. I'm not going to engage in pissing matches so I'll respond to you where I deem you've added something interesting.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 01:21 pm
@blatham,
Perhaps you gguys should build a wall.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 01:25 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

[As I've said, feel free to ignore anything I contribute here. I'm not going to engage in pissing matches so I'll respond to you where I deem you've added something interesting.


Deem away. What you describe as a pissing match was instead a direct reply to your own fatuous comments.

Continuing the pretense that you are somehow above the fray and sitting in judgment of the other, mere mortals, here is a bit strange and, perhaps revealing in my view.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 01:25 pm
From Michael Massing at NYRB. Massing is a smart guy and if you are the reading type, a lot of of prior work is in the archives at the link below, not all available for free but some is. The current piece can be read in full at this point.
Quote:
Now the high-flying song and dance man, of manic energy and ravenous narcissism and colossal neediness, will take the oath as our forty-fifth president. The lobbyists are gathering, the would-be courtiers, the place-servers, for his campaign was a ragged pickup team, a tenth the size of Clinton’s, and he was spurned by much of the Republican establishment that would normally stand eager to staff the government—though some of them now are showing themselves eager enough to join. The grasping after emoluments is a great story, Washington in the dawning of the Trump Age a picaresque novel in the making. Even as we watch, political outsiders are rushing in from the wilderness, eager to turn his fantasies, from immigration to trade to national security, into reality, a reality in which swastikas and hate crimes are popping up around the country, and local politicians are talking darkly of “sanctuary cities.”

And yet in a real sense the principal story worth telling is still him. We are now all in the prey of that aberrant personality, of that vast and never-to-be satisfied need. “Everywhere Donald Trump turns, he sees Donald Trump,” said Mark Singer, as quoted by Michael Kranish and Marc Fisher in Trump Revealed.

Quote:
He doesn’t see the other guy much. It becomes really hard to distinguish [how much] of the promotion and publicity…is good for business and how much of it is to fill that hollowness inside of him.


Now filling that hollowness is our job. No surprise that the president-elect, faced with selecting four thousand reasonably qualified people to fill the government and developing a policy or two that stands a chance of being enacted, has talked about undertaking a “victory tour,” revisiting the states he won, once again surfing those screaming crowds that plainly offer him the real-time affirmation he craves.
New York Review of Books
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 01:33 pm
@blatham,
Yet another dispassionate scholarly selection from the god-like, but self-appointed, dispenser of wisdom on these sites. How gracious that Blatham drops these tidbits of his vorcious study to the mortals below him.

The fact is this is instead a partisan political polemic. There is a bit of truth in it, as is the case with most such material, but, like most others, the central theme is a lie.

More propaganda from a deluded poseur who sees it is scholarship.

(I particularly liked the opening paragraph with its lofty, self-important praise for Massing's supposed smarts and the very condescending reference to the "reading types" among us. The air appears to be very thin up there where Blatham lives.)
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 01:56 pm
Quote:
The ironic reversal of roles hardly needs to be noted. However the Trump Presidency turns out—whether it veers toward autocracy, devolves into kleptocracy, or takes some unheard-of new form—America has, for the time being, abdicated the role of the world’s moral leader, to the extent that it ever played that part convincingly. “Make America Great Again” is one of Trump’s many linguistic contortions: in fact, one of his core messages is that America should no longer bother with being great, that it should retreat from international commitments, that it should make itself small and mean.
http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/the-frankfurt-school-knew-trump-was-coming
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 02:03 pm
@georgeob1,
If you wish to question the veracity of any claims made by those sights, I would suggest you provide proof they are wrong.
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 02:08 pm
A lot of the ugly is coming from the top, which we knew.
Quote:
Megyn Kelly said the responsibility for a deluge of threats faced by her and her family lies with President-elect Donald Trump, and his social media director, Dan Scavino.

“The vast majority of Donald Trump supporters are not at all this way,” Kelly said of the online hate and abuse she had faced during the campaign, The Guardian reported. Kelly was speaking at a Monday night event at Politics and Prose, a Washington, D.C., bookstore.

“It’s that far corner of the internet that really enjoys nastiness and threats and unfortunately there is a man who works for Donald Trump whose job it is to stir these people up and that man needs to stop doing that. His name is Dan Scavino.”
Loc her up! Burn her at the stake!
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 02:09 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Please explain how you go about proving anything about opinion or hyperbole . Perhaps you should read a bit more carefully.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 02:11 pm
@georgeob1,
If you can't challenge the claim made by facts and evidence, you,'re the one presenting hyperbole.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 02:15 pm
From Paul Waldman at the WP
Quote:
It’s no mystery why Trump chose Flynn for this position. Trump is simultaneously contemptuous of military leaders (you’ll recall how often he said during the campaign that he knew more than them) and enamored of them; his Cabinet is likely to contain multiple retired generals. Early on, Flynn was one of the only former military leaders who endorsed Trump and campaigned with him. He quickly became Trump’s closest adviser on national security.

But to put it plainly, Michael Flynn is a crackpot.

Let’s do a quick rundown. Flynn, who was head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, was fired by President Obama for a number of reasons, including mismanagement. His staff got so used to him believing things that were obviously false that they began referring to them as “Flynn Facts.” Nevertheless, he had a complete certainty in his own rightness. At one meeting, “Mr. Flynn said that the first thing everyone needed to know was that he was always right. His staff would know they were right, he said, when their views melded to his.” Furthermore, “Some also described him as a Captain Queeg-like character, paranoid that his staff members were undercutting him and credulous of conspiracy theories.”

You can see it in his statements and writings since his retirement. Flynn believes that Islam is “a malignant cancer” that is actually “a political ideology” that “hides behind this notion of it being a religion.” He has tweeted that “Fear of Muslims is RATIONAL” while posting an anti-Islamic video and asking people to “please forward this to others.” On his Twitter feed, he has a propensity for spreading fake news stories from the right-wing fever swamps. As Bryan Bender and Andrew Hanna report:

But Flynn himself has used social media to promote a series of outrageous conspiracy theories about Hillary Clinton, President Barack Obama and their inner circles in recent months — pushing dubious factoids at least 16 times since Aug. 9, according to a POLITICO review of his Twitter posts.

Flynn, who has 106,000 Twitter followers, has used the platform to retweet accusations that Clinton is involved with child sex trafficking and has “secretly waged war” on the Catholic Church, as well as charges that Obama is a “jihadi” who “laundered” money for Muslim terrorists...
Forget the swamp. It's our precious bodily fluids that are draining

More on Flynn here Don't click here! Dangerous stuff!
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 02:16 pm
@blatham,
More nonsensical opinion from obviously biased sources. The New Yorker article limits the as yet unbegun Trump presidency to "autocracy, kleptocracy or some yet unheard of new form". How scholarly and objective ! What insight to an unknowable future!

Blatham is merely a pretentious purveyor of left wing propaganda, a rebroadcast service for left wing media ( as if one is needed). This stuff would be a bit more tolerable if he was able to make a point in his own words.
blatham
 
  3  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2016 02:30 pm
As of this morning, Clinton's margin in the popular vote is now up to 2.65 million (Pence's weekend claim that Trump had a "decisive, landslide victory" notwithstanding).
 

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