0
   

Let's talk about replacing GWBush in 2004.

 
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 May, 2004 10:37 pm
CI

Bush's backing of Rumsfeld is targeted at home voter consumption, not at the world outside. I understand that Bush has been briefed by key advisors, and on a regular basis, that there actually is a world outside, but there is some question as to whether these briefings were tagged as 'background/historical', and so weren't given the sort of status or priority which might have led the President to act any differently than previously.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 09:54 am
The hard right is warning Bush to change his act:


Quote:
Democracy Now
From the May 17, 2004 issue: The Bush administration seems not to recognize how widespread, and how bipartisan, is the view that Iraq is already lost or on the verge of being lost.
by Robert Kagan and William Kristol
05/17/2004, Volume 009, Issue 34

WE DO NOT KNOW how close the American effort in Iraq may be to irrecoverable failure. We are inclined to believe, however, that the current Washington wisdom--that the United States has already failed and there is nothing to do now but find a not-too-damaging way to extricate ourselves--is far too pessimistic, a panicked reaction to the difficulties in Falluja and with Moktada al-Sadr, as well as to the disaster of Abu Ghraib. We are also appalled at the cavalier and irresponsible way people on both left and right now suggest we should pull out and simply let Iraq go to hell. We wonder how those who, rightly, complain about the American mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners, can blithely consign the entire Iraqi population to the likely prospect of a horrific civil war and the brutal dictatorship that would follow. Spare us that kind of "humanitarianism."

Thank goodness the president says he remains committed to victory. Thank goodness there are stalwarts like Senators Joe Biden, Joe Lieberman, and Evan Bayh in the Democratic party who are fighting against that party's growing clamor for withdrawal. But loss of confidence that the war is winnable goes well beyond left-wing Democrats and isolationist Republicans. The Bush administration seems not to recognize how widespread, and how bipartisan, is the view that Iraq is already lost or on the verge of being lost. The administration therefore may not appreciate how close the whole nation is to tipping decisively against the war. In a sense, it doesn't matter whether
this popular and elite perception of the situation in Iraq is too simplistic and too pessimistic. The perception, if it lingers, may destroy support for the war before events on the ground have a chance to prove it wrong.

So Iraq could be lost if the Bush administration holds to the view that it can press ahead with its political and military strategy without any dramatic change of course, without taking bold and visible action to reverse the current downward trajectory. The existing Bush administration plan in Iraq is to wait for U.N. envoy Lakhdar Brahimi to name an interim Iraqi caretaker government by the end of May that will take power on July 1, and prepare for elections in January 2005. This plan might have been adequate a couple of months ago. But it is inadequate to meet the new challenge.

Among the biggest mistakes made by the Bush administration over the past year has been the failure to move Iraq more rapidly toward elections. It's true that many, inside and outside the administration, have long been clamoring to hand over more responsibility to Iraqis, responsibility above all for doing more of the fighting and dying. But the one thing even many of these friends of Iraq have been unwilling to hand over to Iraqis is the right to choose their own government. This is a mistake.

We do not believe in the present circumstances that the current administration plan moves quickly enough toward providing Iraqis real sovereignty. It is not real sovereignty when a U.N. official tells Iraqis who their next prime minister will be. We strongly doubt that the announcement of a new interim government--three to four weeks from now, to take office almost two months from now--will have sufficient impact on Iraqi public opinion to overcome the images of American soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners. Nor do we believe the present course will give the American people and their representatives sufficient reason to hope that a corner may be turned in the near future. The coming weeks are critical.

We don't claim to have a silver bullet. But we believe one answer to the current crisis would be to move up elections by several months, perhaps to September. The administration could announce very soon that nationwide Iraqi elections will be held on September 30. Brahimi could go ahead and announce his caretaker government, but it would be clear to all that the new government's primary purpose was to preside over the transition to elected government--first by preparing for the elections, with the help of the United States and the international community.

Accelerating the elections would have several virtues: First, it would change the subject. Instead of focusing on their anger at Americans, Iraqis would be compelled to begin focusing on the coming elections, where each and every Iraqi adult will have a chance to participate in shaping the future. Second, with elections coming quickly, those who continued to commit violence in Iraq would be understood to be attacking not only the United States, but also the elections process, and therefore democracy. The insurgents would be antidemocratic rather than anti-American. Sunnis could be told that if they want more power, they should begin organizing for the vote. Those Sunnis who committed violence would be harming the Sunni population's chances of fair representation, since violence that disrupts the voting could lead to nullification of the vote in the affected areas. The impending elections would encourage the majority of peaceful Sunnis and Shia to take sides against the guerrillas who seek power through force of
arms instead of through the ballot.

Third, with elections pending, American military actions could be seen not just as an effort to suppress rebellious Iraqi movements but as a vital support for the elections process, and for democracy. Americans would be fighting to give Iraqis a chance to vote, soon. Fourth, and not least important, the holding of elections in Iraq within a few months might give Americans here at home greater confidence that things can be turned around in Iraq. Does it make that much difference whether elections are held in January 2005 or September 2004? In normal times, perhaps not. But these are not normal times. In terms of perception and psychology, both in Iraq and in the United States, we believe moving the elections to September can make a very big difference. As for those who rightly point out that the schedule we suggest would make for a hasty and imperfect election process and that much could go wrong, we agree. But even flawed elections in Iraq would contribute to a sense of political progress--of movement toward legitimate self-government--that would give us a chance of improving the situation.

In addition to setting a new date for elections, the administration would have to do a couple of other things. It would have to increase, substantially, the number of troops in Iraq in order to create a more secure environment for elections. Rep. John Murtha has been attacked by Republicans for insisting that we are unlikely to succeed in Iraq without a big increase in the number of troops. These attacks on Murtha are stupid, because he is absolutely right. The Pentagon continues to fiddle while Iraq burns. Everyone in Iraq with whom we talk bemoans the shortage of troops and equipment. It is now impossible to travel safely throughout most of Iraq. This is terrible news, and would be even if we weren't preparing for an election. But if elections are announced, the Pentagon could be forced to overcome its arrogant stubbornness and beef up the force.

Finally, the administration should use the new date for elections as an opportunity to make one more run at Europe and the international community for support. It could challenge the French and Germans to send troops to Iraq not to aid our occupation but to support elections. And aside from troops, Europeans could provide vital money and technical assistance to the elections process, which must be managed with care. We believe it would be hard for Europeans to say no when asked to support a more rapid electoral process in Iraq. The Bush administration, therefore, might be able to demonstrate to the American people that it was acting with greater success to bring the international community in to help. That too would help reverse the gloom and doom here at home.

As we say, this proposal is not a cure-all. It carries its own risks as well as benefits. If someone has a better idea, we're happy to hear it. But if the administration does not take dramatic action now, it may be unable to avoid failure.

--Robert Kagan and William Kristol



http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/056mvrqy.asp?pg=1


But Bush is too bull headed to listen.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 10:09 am
thomas

Regarding earlier discussion on media ownership/control etc...and relevant to what Alterman has documented in "What Liberal Media", may I point you to the following piece from Slate... http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2004/05/11/noise/index.html
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 11:10 am
blatham wrote:
thomas

Regarding earlier discussion on media ownership/control etc...and relevant to what Alterman has documented in "What Liberal Media", may I point you to the following piece from Slate... http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2004/05/11/noise/index.html

I'm not denying that there is a Republican noise machine. I am denying that Canada's "diversity regulations" helped matters. Your own account of what happened in Canadian print media is telling me that the Canadian government, by "protecting" their press against foreign takeovers, made sure that newspapers were taken over by an arch-conservative Canadian.

One thing your Salon article doesn't mention is that the influence of right-wing ideas isn't limited by the lefts ability to print leftist journals -- it's limited by the readers, viewers, and listeners willingness to pay attention. This further limits the effectiveness of such policies. Add to this the irresistable temptaition for governments to play favorites about who gets a channel and who doesn't, and the cost of such a policy will exceed the expected benefits by far.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 11:15 am
Lola wrote:
But Bush is too bull headed to listen.

I agree. But it's good to see that more and more grown-up Republicans are beginning to refuse putting up with it. Did any of you see John McCain interroraging Rumsfeld in the Senate hearing?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 02:18 pm
thomas

Sheesh...you're like my twin, always wanting to fight (in his case, because he was born ten minutes later, in yours because I'm clearly more attractive to the ladies)

Actually, I wasn't sure how familiar you were with the conservative machine as it now exists in the US, so I passed that link along as it seemed a handy-dandy brief.

Quote:
I'm not denying that there is a Republican noise machine. I am denying that Canada's "diversity regulations" helped matters. Your own account of what happened in Canadian print media is telling me that the Canadian government, by "protecting" their press against foreign takeovers, made sure that newspapers were taken over by an arch-conservative Canadian.


The intent of the regs, of course, was not to block out a political voice per se, but to maintain some small degree of Canadian culture and cultural enterprises. And in this goal, there's clear success, most obviously as regards French Canada. If you are suggesting there might be other non-intended consequences, that's likely so as always, but it certainly isn't the case that those regs made Conrad Black or someone like him inevitable. We have to turn to quite different reasons to account for him, or Rupert Murdoch, or Richard Mellon Scaife, etc. As the present situation in the US demonstrates, faith that diversity will always arise out of a free-wheeling laissez faire regimen is a romantic fallacy.

Quote:
One thing your Salon article doesn't mention is that the influence of right-wing ideas isn't limited by the lefts ability to print leftist journals -- it's limited by the readers, viewers, and listeners willingness to pay attention. This further limits the effectiveness of such policies. Add to this the irresistable temptaition for governments to play favorites about who gets a channel and who doesn't, and the cost of such a policy will exceed the expected benefits by far.


The 'irresistable temptation for government to play favorites' that you speak of has some truth to it, most notably or predictably, in the evolution of some species of cronyism. Yet what 'costs' and consequences that must or might accrue aren't at all a given, unless one assumes they must be so, and that they will inevitably produce an overall negative balance, and also that they will contain a significant shift towards favoring a particular political voice. That really was not previously true in Canada. The advent of Black was concurrent with the advent of Murdoch, not those regs. No imaginable system is free of costs and consequences, so one has to, I think, decide which consequences are the ones most important to avoid.

Of course, I have acknowledged that the 'left' is not infringed in terms of rights by the increasing consolidation of ownership and the purposeful monopolization of political voice. I just don't think that rights alone constitute an adequate criterion. If everyone on my block has an M16 but me, and I can go buy one too, that is no infringement on my rights. Nor is it an improved or desireable neighborhood.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 09:58 pm
Quote:
One thing your Salon article doesn't mention is that the influence of right-wing ideas isn't limited by the lefts ability to print leftist journals -- it's limited by the readers, viewers, and listeners willingness to pay attention.


The message of ultra right wing or ultra left wing media, the absolutism, concrete ideation and judgemental certainty about everyone but self is intoxicating. It's similar to the allure of cigarettes for adolescents. Of course the audience gobbles it up. It's more work to think through complicated issues and maintain an open mind. It's an unfair market advantage. This should be considered when thinking about the pros and cons of government regulation. Establishing barriers to domination of either side seems advantageous to me. Even necessary. Human nature being what it is.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 10:34 pm
McCain's drilling of Rummie was the highlight of the hearings. Too bad he had limited time to ask more direct questions. Rummie looked flustered.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 10:38 pm
Quote:
Rummie looked flustered.


Delightful to see, wasn't it? It's about time he had to answer to someone. Finally.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2004 11:10 pm
Enjoyed every second of it. Most of the repubs were patting him on the back before they asked those elementary questions that belongs in grade school. They knew they had limited time, and they wasted it for all of us!
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2004 04:23 am
blatham wrote:
As the present situation in the US demonstrates, faith that diversity will always arise out of a free-wheeling laissez faire regimen is a romantic fallacy.

Maybe so, but even if it is, I don't see how the present situation in the US demonstrates it. TV and radio regulations are far from laissez-faire in the US, so if you're unhappy with diversity on American TV, you can't blame it on laissez-faire. On the other hand, there is great diversity in American websites and American print media, where the regime is much more nearly laissez-faire. Even if I agreed with your conclusion, which I don't, I would still have a problem with how you reached it.

blatham wrote:
No imaginable system is free of costs and consequences, so one has to, I think, decide which consequences are the ones most important to avoid.

Yes. And if you take a look at cases like Galilei v. Catholic Church, you will see that it is worthwile to avoid the consequences of centralized power structures deciding which viewpoints are worthy of wide circulation. In my view, the dangers arising from such squeeze points on public opinion are much greater than the dangers from rich private activists with an axe to grind. If the Springer Verlag, Murdoch's German equivalent, prints newspapers I don't want to read, I can easily ignore them. In fact, they do, and I do. If Gerhard Schröder decides that some specific TV channel of Springer's cannot be broadcast in Germany, which he didn't, everybody who wants to watch it has to emigrate -- or buy a satellite dish, which is legal in Germany but illegal in Canada if I understand you correctly.

blatham wrote:
If everyone on my block has an M16 but me, and I can go buy one too, that is no infringement on my rights. Nor is it an improved or desireable neighborhood.

The difference is, in a neighborhood where everyone but you has an M16, you can expect that your neighbors will try to infringe on your rights. I gather that this is a big part of what makes the neighborhood atavistic and unattractive to you. But in a neigborhood where everyone but you watches Fox, your neigbors are not going to infringe on your right to watch something else. Hence, your analogy is nice and graphic, but unfortunately not analogous.

But you're right about one thing: we disagree on the principle of this. In my opinion, your neighbors are under no obligation to provide you with a neighborhood you find pleasant to live in. Therefore I find it inappropriate of you to make government force them to provide it. The same applies to your notion of "improved". If your neighbors, if given a choice, would prefer to watch Fox News over watching whatever the Canadian government deems fit for them to watch, that means they disagree with your notion of "progress". Who are you to impose your notion of progress on people who don't share it -- even if you happen to be part of the majority?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2004 10:19 am
thomas

We've gotten down to something quite essential in the question. I confess that I am tempted to agree with you and disagree with myself. There is an element here which Berlin speaks to in "two concepts of liberty" which makes my position somewhat less than confident. Yet at the same time, I have an intuitive voice telling me that you've got something wrong as well.

Let me refamiliarize myself with his essay, and I'll see how my view evolves. Or, I'll just return and murder you.

This has been, I'll let you know, delightful.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2004 10:44 am
Thomas wrote:
Quote:
But in a neigborhood where everyone but you watches Fox, your neigbors are not going to infringe on your right to watch something else. Hence, your analogy is nice and graphic, but unfortunately not analogous.


Thomas,

In this I think you are naive. When everyone, or so many people, are watching Fox, as they are today, they will want to interfere with me watching what I want. It's exactly what they want. The neo-cons and religious fanatics, the fundamentalists, if you will, have bought up as many stations as they can. And they have plans to buy more. And they have big money. They do not want diversity, they want control.

They're trying to take control of the courts and once this is accomplished, the balance of power it gone, at least for a time. The potential is there for massive destructive behavior. As we're seeing in the world today. The policies of the Bush administration, internationally, have created a huge destructive mess in the world and it will only get worse. Just look at what's happening. The easy slogan, "an eye for an eye," does nothing but cause escalation of violence, in spite of the fact that this administration says it's to end the violence. We abuse prisoners, so the Muslim fundamentalists be-head a US citizen. Big progress. You see, if this continues, the fundamentalists, whether Muslim, Christian or other, will be in control through the use of violence.

The fundamentalists (and I identify them in this way for their love of concrete ideation and wish to control others) have been able to dominate the media market in a way that influences how people vote. They sell an easy answer, a commodity we all crave and many of us try to believe is possible. At least, it's like cigarettes or candy. At worst, it's like heroin. Simple, concrete thinking and easy "answers" makes a person feel good, safe, right and euphoric. This is the appeal.

But these fundamentalists are only the present danger. You or others may or may not agree that this situation is as dangerous as I believe it to be. So let's just speak in abstract principle. Without regulation, the market will determine the product.

Regulation doesn't determine which ideas can be promoted. It makes it impossible for one idea to dominate. A free market has to be protected, otherwise, it will destroy itself.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2004 11:27 am
Lola wrote:
When everyone, or so many people, are watching Fox, as they are today, they will want to interfere with me watching what I want. It's exactly what they want.

It depends on what you mean by "they". If you mean the people who produce Fox News, sure -- Rupert Murdoch wants you to watch Rupert Murdoch channels and nothing else. But the people who watch Fox -- say, Fedral, Scrat, and georgeob1 -- are people whose views I happen to disagree with, sometimes passionately, but who have never questioned my right to hold the views I hold. If that's naive of me, then I'm naive. Fine.

Lola wrote:
The potential is there for massive destructive behavior. As we're seeing in the world today. The policies of the Bush administration, internationally, have created a huge destructive mess in the world and it will only get worse. Just look at what's happening.

I agree that what's happening is bad. But take a look at all the evil stuff that happened during the last 3 1/2 years -- the war on Iraq, the PATRIOT act, the policy that American cotton farmers are worthier of subsidies than Third world cotton farmers are of escaping starvation -- all these have been bipartisan projects which the Democrats happily followed along with. The same is true for evil stuff that started earlier. Americans currently don't even have the option of electing a president who opposes capital punishment or pledges to end the war on drugs. So I agree with you that the situation is bad for civil rights, but the bulk of this is bipartisan evilness, and I think you miss the point when you make it a Democrats vs. Republicans issue.

Lola wrote:
Regulation doesn't determine which ideas can be promoted. It makes it impossible for one idea to dominate.

Not if the fundamentalists co-opt the regulators too, which they already have with several other regulating agencies.

Lola wrote:
A free market has to be protected, otherwise, it will destroy itself.

Up until the 19th century, the Catholic Church made very similar arguments against freedom of press. What, in your opinion, is different about TV?
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2004 11:37 am
Quote:
I think you miss the point when you make it a Democrats vs. Republicans issue.


Thomas, I don't have the time now to respond in full to what you've written. I will when I have some time this afternoon. But for now, let me point out to you that you have missed my point that I'm not talking about Democrat vs. Republican. Or Christian vs. Muslim. That's much too simple and would deny the complexity of the issue we're discussing.

I wrote:
Quote:
the fundamentalists, whether Muslim, Christian or other, will be in control through the use of violence.


I'll get back to this later. Lots of fun, thinking hard like this. It's those who don't want to think, but depend of platitudes vs. those who will struggle.......that's the distinction I'm making for now.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2004 11:46 am
Lola, Are you saying, "There are not enough of us!"?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2004 06:49 pm
More bad news for Bush.
**********
Bush approval ratings dip to new lows
Iraq, economy, overall ratings all at lows of his presidency
By Corbett B. Daly, CBS Marketwatch
Last Update: 7:09 PM ET May 12, 2004







WASHINGTON (CBS.MW) -- As news of the abuse of prisoners in U.S. custody in Iraq continues to dominate the airwaves, Americans are increasingly dissatisfied with the way President Bush is doing his job, according to a new CBS News poll released Wednesday


The president's approval rating for the way he has handled the war in Iraq and its aftermath, his rating on his stewardship of the economy and his overall rating are all at new lows.

Thirty-nine percent of Americans approve of Bush's handling of the situation in Iraq, the lowest rating on that question of any CBS poll, while 58 percent disapprove of his leadership, according the telephone poll, conducted Tuesday and released Wednesday. Read more about the poll.

The Iraq approval rating fell from 41 percent two weeks ago and 57 percent last August, while his disapproval rating rose from 52 percent in April and 36 percent in August. The poll of 448 adults nationwide has a margin of error of plus or minus 5 percent.

On the economy, 34 percent of Americans approve of the job Bush is doing, the lowest rating on that question in any CBS poll during his presidency, while 60 percent disapprove.

Bush's overall approval rating fell to 44 percent in the latest poll, while his disapproval rating rose to 49 percent.

The poll also showed that that 29 percent of respondents now say the war in Iraq was "worth it," the lowest number of any CBS poll and down from 38 percent two weeks ago and 46 percent last August.

Sixty-four percent of respondents say the war was "not worth it," up from 58 percent in April and 45 percent in August, 2003.

And a growing number of Americans think the United States should leave Iraq as quickly as possible, even if that nation is not stable. Fifty-five percent of respondents believe the United States should get out of Iraq, up from 46 percent in April and 35 percent last December. Thirty-eight percent of respondents believe the United States should stay in Iraq until it is stable, down from 46 percent in April and 56 percent in December.

On the prisoner abuse scandal specifically, 60 percent of Americans believe the behavior of U.S. prison guards is causing "a very serious" problem for U.S. progress in Iraq, while 23 percent say it is "somewhat serious" and 14 percent believe it is "not serious."

An overwhelming majority of Americans believe the actions of the guards were not justified, 77 percent versus 13 percent who said the actions were justified, but respondents were divided on whom to blame for the actions.

Forty percent of respondents said higher military officers should be held responsible, while 46 percent would limit blame to the soldiers directly involved in the abuse.

A majority of Americans believes Donald Rumsfeld should remain at the helm of the Pentagon. Fifty-three percent of respondents said he should not resign as secretary of defense in the wake of the scandal, while 37 percent say he should step down.

Corbett B. Daly covers the White House and the Treasury Department for CBS MarketWatch in Washington.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2004 11:06 pm
Thomas,

You said:
Quote:
It depends on what you mean by "they".


The "they" I'm concerned about cannot be defined by whether "they" are Republican or Democrat, nor conservative or liberal, nor Christian or Muslim, nor theists or atheists, etc. These categories are not adequate for my purposes, because they are too general. As you point out, sometimes there is much agreement between certain individual Republicans and certain individual Democrats.....and sometimes, because of political expediency, they vote together, etc.

The distinction I'm concerned about, worried about, is the one I mention above. I'll call it the fundamentalists vs. those who depend on the process of rational thought.

By fundamentalism, I mean those who promote blind faith, without question. (And I don't limit this to religious faith.) They think categorically and without nuance. They are aware only of the surface (if the Bible says that Jonah was swallowed by a whale, then he was literally swallowed by a whale, for instance). And they avoid or are unaware of the meaning behind the surface story. They are literal in their interpretations, concrete in their understandings. They believe in absolutes. And they punish those who question their absolute beliefs, those who want to know why. (You're either for us or you're against us.) They are anti-science, anti-empiricism (if the Pope says there are 4 teeth in a horse's mouth, it is heresy to try to count even one horse's teeth, but wanting to count the teeth in several horses mouths, to find an average.........heaven forbid! or ........If the president says that Americans are compassionate, then to question whether the war was necessary or rather possibly an uncompassionate activity is an act of disloyalty.) They believe opinion or faith can be coerced. They seek to control rather than to settle for influence. The neo-cons and the fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalists of all types (by definition) fit into this category.

I contrast these fundamentalists with people who are willing to question. To struggle for answers, who can keep an open enough mind to consider possibilities other than the ones they are invested in believing. They recognize that the plot of a story is only one important aspect, they recognize the value of the theme as well. They are suspicious of absolute answers or explanations. etc.

Of course, these polarities are actually points on a scale. But for the purpose of our discussion, I hope we can agree that these characteristics, to the point they predominate, are mutually exclusive.

So categories like Republican or Democarts, Christian or Muslim are useless. Obviously some Republicans/conservatives/theists fit into the fundamentalist camp and some do not. The same goes for the Dems/liberals/atheists.

Now, I think you are arguing that government regulations are always a greater danger than is the condition of no regulations at all. If this is not your argument, then please correct me.

If this is what you're arguing, then let me ask you a question. Do you believe that all laws are a greater danger than having no laws at all? If you believe that some things should be regulated (people should not be allowed to murder others or steal, etc.) and others should not, what criteria do you use to decide which should be and which should not?

Isn't your idea, that regulation is always more dangerous than no regulation at all arbitrary and absolute? Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that regulations can/may be dangerous or they can/may be helpful? It's not the regulations themselves that pose a threat. The threat lies, rather, with the people in charge of setting the regulations. That is that those who devalue the need for empirical criteria, who insist they are right, regardless of contradictions are more likely to set regulations which limit freedom than are those who value the accumulation of observable information?

The condition of no regulations is as dangerous as is the condition of regulations of the wrong kind. It's the type of regulation that matters. For instance, if the regulation has to do with allowable content in the media, it is more likely to be used to unnecessarily limit freedoms. And a fundamentalist would be more likely to want this type of regulation because they are interesting in policing our thoughts. But if a regulation has to do with how many stations one individual or company is allowed to own in any given market, it is less likely to inhibit freedom and more likely to protect it? While this type of regulation would not guarantee protection of freedom, it would, I argue, be more likely to do so than no regulation at all.

I agree with you that the less regulation necessary, the better. But I can't agree that regulations, in and of themselves, are to be avoided entirely.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 May, 2004 08:46 am
Bill, in answer to your question. I don't think it's a simple matter of us against them. There are those of us who seek to influence and take more responsibility for understanding. There are those of us who have informed ourselves more and thought about the issues more (on both sides) and those who, for whatever reason they have, reasonable or not, who are less informed. These people depend on others who have more knowledge to influence them, one way or another.

That's why the media is so important, in my mind. It's a powerful tool for influencing the way people decide to vote. Many people are so busy just trying to pay their bills and live, they don't have time to inform themselves.....or they have less interest for whatever reason. I believe we have to strive for equal access to media influence. When a certain practice (like buying up as many stations as is possible in a certain geographic area, taking unfair market advantage) interferes with fair and reasonably equal access, I believe it should be regulated. And I believe the regulation should be as non-invasive as possible. For instance, I would be very hesitant to agree that program content should be regulated. But I do think a when monopoly over resources, in this case we're talking about media, results in an unfair or impossible to influence market advantage, something sometimes needs to be done about it. And I can't think of any other entity more approprite to do the regulating than the government. The right or ability to influence the voters should be protected for all sides. If one side gains advantage over that ability to influence, we are in danger of loosing our democratic system of government.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 May, 2004 09:16 am
Ooooh, too, too serious for me today Lola Laughing
0 Replies
 
 

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