0
   

Let's talk about replacing GWBush in 2004.

 
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2004 10:35 am
LOL!!
0 Replies
 
firstthought
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2004 06:31 pm
viable
Scrat you old sabre tooth squirrel you -- your a bit out of whack on your lexicology I would think!

ft Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2004 06:38 pm
Did anyone else notice that over the weekend, Cheney gave a public speech somewhere and confided that he has not for years watched news from a major network like NBC or CBC. He does, though, watch Fox becasue it most accurately covers the news.

And, Ralph Reed, in a public speech over the weekend in Colorado confided that he has not watched a major network like ABC of CBC for some years, but he does watch Fox because it most accurately covers the news.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2004 06:41 pm
It's no wonder why this country is in such a big mess.
0 Replies
 
Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2004 06:43 pm
I agree they should get a smattering of sources--but, what is this about Canada wanting to ban FOX...?

Shouldn't EVERYONE get a balance of views? Or just Conservatives?
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2004 09:39 pm
Re: viable
firstthought wrote:
Scrat you old sabre tooth squirrel you -- your a bit out of whack on your lexicology I would think!

ft Rolling Eyes

Blame my lexicology of today on the toxicology of my youth. :wink:
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2004 10:17 pm
Sofia wrote:
I agree they should get a smattering of sources--but, what is this about Canada wanting to ban FOX...?

Shouldn't EVERYONE get a balance of views? Or just Conservatives?


http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=f831a3010fb37fa3

Regretfully, we Canadians will have to do without Fox. It's a deep disappointment, Rupert Murdoch and his station representing the very best that journalism has to offer.

But I think there is a positive corner (a small, tight corner, to be sure) in this. Most of us have chain saws in the garage or the basement or the tool shed. It's a lumberjack thing. And there's about fifty million of us. I'm afraid that, given a few nights of news or Hannity, the 25 million who weren't laughing would head straight down to the sacred 49th parallel with our saws and start cutting. Calculations suggest that 25 million chain saws could, in just over a month of steady effort, separate the continent, setting the US adrift (even more than it is). We'd wave, of course, being polite sorts. But we do that with in-laws as well when they finally leave.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 May, 2004 10:20 pm
Will you let some of us hop over as we drift apart?
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2004 01:48 am
See, blatham --

that's the pity with you Canadians. Now you've made me a defender of Fox News.

the author of blatham's article wrote:
The barking-mad Fox News Channel is something that most Canadians have only heard about. It's time we saw it for ourselves, and made up our own minds about the phenomenon. We'll find out if this Bill O'Reilly fella is as stupendously pompous and preening as he appears to be in the rare clips we see of Fox News.'

I wholeheartedly agree with this. And I find it deplorable that the Canadian Radio-Television and Telecommunications Commission disagrees. It doesn't believe in Canadians making up their own minds about Fox News, so it won't let them. If Fox is really so beneath the Canadians that nobody's going to view it anyway, why bother rejecting their application for a channel?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2004 06:21 am
I had no idea that Fox wasn't broadcast on Canadian cable stations.

Why aren't all our resident Canucks raising hell about censorship and government intervention in citizens lives?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2004 06:53 am
Thomas wrote:
See, blatham --

that's the pity with you Canadians. Now you've made me a defender of Fox News.

the author of blatham's article wrote:
The barking-mad Fox News Channel is something that most Canadians have only heard about. It's time we saw it for ourselves, and made up our own minds about the phenomenon. We'll find out if this Bill O'Reilly fella is as stupendously pompous and preening as he appears to be in the rare clips we see of Fox News.'

I wholeheartedly agree with this. And I find it deplorable that the Canadian Radio-Television and Telecommunications Commission disagrees. It doesn't believe in Canadians making up their own minds about Fox News, so it won't let them. If Fox is really so beneath the Canadians that nobody's going to view it anyway, why bother rejecting their application for a channel?


thomas

Well, on occasion, you and I disagree. Normally the context will be government regulation on trade, and here it is regarding government regulations on communications.

The CRTC has traditionally (for a couple of decades at least) forwarded a policy of promoting Canadian-sourced communications in publishing and in TV. The rationale has been 'cultural protection', that is, to promote Canadian cultural identity in the face of the huge inflow of communications from down south. We have, too, a similar notion internally, where French Canadian culture has certain 'protections' against the larger English media. I'm quite happy with both sets of values/regulations, certainly in their intent.

I'm a big fan of the traditional Millian understanding of multiple speech sources. Where we'll probably disagree here is on how, in the present world of 2004, it might be best to achieve that.

You'll note in the piece I linked above that O'Reilly describes the Toronto Globe and Mail as 'left-wing'. That's quite ironic, really. The Globe, until a bit more than a decade ago, was Canada's single national paper (as opposed to a local city paper) and was (accurately) considered the paper forwarding the business view of things (that is, not left). It's editorial leaning has not, in any noticeable way, changed. Twenty years ago, had anyone labelled the Globe as 'left wing', they would have been gently patted on the arm and walked away from, carefully.

Then Conrad Black (Hollinger) begain buying up Canadian newspapers...small local dailies, many large city dailies...until he controlled some 70% of Canada's papers. At which point, he also began a new national paper, the National Post, to compete with the Globe. Vancouver, where I live, has three papers in town, the Sun, the Province, and the National Post. All were Conrad Black papers.

You know something of the fellow, I'm sure. His editorial control, and his push of that content to the right, led many editors and staff to leave the papers he had taken over. It changed the whole face of Canadian print news, pushing it so far right that someone like O'Reilly could (and who'd ever have thunk it?) consider the Globe to be left wing. Personally, he was/is a thug, who would launch his deep pocket legal suits against pretty much anyone who said anything negative about him. A legal challenge to his overwhelming control of Canadian print media was lost, on a point of legal procedure. A few years ago, he sold these holdings to the Asper family (CanWest), who have continued Black's particular political notions (for example, I'll pay you ten bucks if you can find in any Asper paper a single empathetic comment on the Palestinian problem).

This shift rightward in Canadian press is matched by a similar shift in US media (see Alterman's "What Liberal Media" for enough specifics to likely give you cause to wake screaming nightly, and your wife to divorce you).

That would be perhaps ok, if such a shift was merely the consequence of a pendulum swing in general viewpoint. But only a numbskull would argue that one. This is coincident with the consolidation of media outlets in fewer and fewer hands, and those hands being corporate (naughty, naughty corporations...get thee behind me). These owners, and Conrad is a paradigm example, typically consider media properties to be most fundamentally, just one more means of income/investment gain. And they are a particular type of community member with a particular set of policy priorities associated with their income/investment goals. "Comforting the afflicted, and afflicting the comfortable" isn't likely to be a motto they'll post on the wall and to which they will genuflect each sunny morn on arrival at the office.

Murdoch is, of course, probably the sleaziest of them all. The fellow would do his own grandmother with a weed-eater if there was a buck in it. As Dennis Potter, the late Brit screenplay genius, opined, "No single individual is more responsible for the decline of political discourse in Britain than Murdoch." I think Potter is right, as you may have guessed.

The JS Mill argument is for multiplicity of voice. The increasing domination by a few corporate entities over media in North America is not productive of such multiplicity. The reverse is becoming precisely the case. The common arguments put forward by the sorts of folks who support, for example, the further reduction of ownership regulations through changing previous policies of the American FCC..."look at all them web sites and blogs...sheesh...there are more voices than ever!"...are either dull-headed or disengenuous. One person out of a thousand in the US may have read a Slate column, but one perhaps one person out of a thousand has NOT watched Fox.

You have a far greater faith in the marketplace than do I when speaking of economic/social improvements. But likely we share the Millian notion of an idea marketplace and the values that accrue. I just think that the first doesn't get us the second. A proof I offer is the present American electorate, reflected on this board.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2004 07:10 am
Aunt Antonia wrote last re this subject:

Quote:
Get the facts straight, Fox friends
by ANTONIA ZERBISIAS • Sunday September 07, 2003 at 03:30 PM


The Right - The Party Of The Sheeple

Get the facts straight, Fox friends


ANTONIA ZERBISIAS
TORONTO STAR

Some months ago, I received a call from a producer for the Fox News Network, the Rupert Murdoch-owned, right-wing favourite, all-news service that is now ahead of CNN in the ratings.

"We want to know why we're banned in Canada,'' she said, inviting me to come on and defend our policy of keeping U.S. domination of our airwaves to a bare maximum of 80 per cent or so.

"Sure," I said, visions of beating up on star anchor Bill O'Reilly getting busy in my head.

He's the guy who is called "Bill O'Lie-lly" ?- for how he has fudged his political affiliations and personal past ?- in satirist Al Franken's already best-selling new book, Lies, And The Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair And Balanced Look At The Right.

Let me tell you, O'Reilly is some piece of work, as I saw two summers ago when he had a show on the regular Fox network, Buffalo's Channel 29.

This is the fine American who, while interviewing Jeremy Glick, the son of a New York Port Authority worker who died in the World Trade Center, broke into a profane and abusive tirade. Why? Because Glick opposed the attack on Iraq.

Claiming that Glick was offending the memory of his father by criticizing the Bush administration, he accused him of "mouthing ... a marginal position in this society.'' When Glick tried to get a word in edgewise to say even his father would have agreed with his anti-war stance, O'Reilly erupted: "You keep your mouth shut when you sit here exploiting those people...

"Get out of my studio before I tear you to f------g pieces!"

Nice.

Which is why, when that producer called me to debate on Fox, I did jump ?- but not before urging her to phone the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) to confirm that the channel was not "banned'' in Canada, not even close.

Indeed, the way it works is, cable and/or satellite companies that wish to carry foreign signals here must apply to do so ?- and, at that point, none had applied to import Fox News.

What's more, as of November 2000, CanWest Global has held the licence for Fox News Canada. That would be a digital hybrid along the lines of the Rogers and Shaw Cable-owned MSNBC here, which carries mostly U.S. content with some recycled CPAC programming in the off-hours.

Why Global hasn't launched Fox News Canada is a mystery. Last week, company spokesperson Geoffrey Elliott said he was "not in a position to comment'' on the matter. My guess, and it's pure speculation, is that CanWest has too much debt to deal with such an endeavour. That said, last week it did announce it will launch CoolTV, a digi-net devoted to jazz.

But those of you who want Fox ?- and aren't willing to risk going the illegal satellite dish route ?- need not despair. That's because, in June, the Canadian Cable Television Association (CCTA) applied to the CRTC to add Fox News to the list of non-Canadian channels eligible for digital carriage here. The CCTA also wants to import HBO, Showtime and other popular U.S. cable services, mostly to hang on to customers who are hooking up to those black market dishes.

Meanwhile, the Canadian Association of Broadcasters (CAB), whose members include CanWest Global, is fighting the CCTA application because it cuts into its business. (For example, why go to Chum's Bravo for Sex And The City when you can get it off HBO directly?)

Note that the CCTA and CAB have jointly ?- oh what a complex and incestuous web our broadcast industry be! ?- waged all-out war on illegal dishes, as evidenced by their anti-satellite theft TV ad campaign. Last Friday, they won a major victory when the federal government suggested it would amend the law to combat "signal piracy.''

Which leads to an utterly ridiculous piece of tripe in the reactionary online rag The American Enterprise last week, "If You Like Fox News, You'll Hate Canada.''

Penned by Marni Soupcoff, a very nice girl who personally strikes me as a Linda Frum-in-an-intellectual-training-bra, it's an error-filled, myth-ridden diatribe, apparently inspired by the fact that the very same cable companies who want to bring in Fox News also want to import the Arab all-news service Al Jazeera.

Claiming that Canadians have no access to such U.S. programs as The Sopranos ?- hello? CTV runs it uncut on free TV!! ?- Soupcoff ignores the CCTA application for Fox, as well as the facts, and instead fulminates:

"So, we Canadians find ourselves in the absurd position of potentially being able to tune into the latest news on the jihad against the imperialist, murderous, blood-sucking Jewish Zionist conspiracy, but unable to catch an episode of (Fox's) Hannity And Colmes because a bureaucrat at the CRTC has decided the former is more culturally acceptable than the latter.''

Soupcoff's rant mirrors many letters I have received in the past week, with readers demanding to know why I support the introduction of Al Jazeera into Canada but not of Fox.

Hey, who said I was against freedom of expression? As long as they don't violate any hate laws, from the right or the left, let a thousand voices ring out.

I say, let Fox among the Canadian chickens, eh? I don't think it will get much of an audience here but that's not my problem.

Oh and by the way, I never did go on the network, as much as I wanted to. That's because the CRTC and I satisfied the Fox producer that the channel wasn't "banned'' here.

Perhaps if its many Canadian fans actually followed Canadian news sources, they would know that too.

source: via vancouver.indymedia.org
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2004 07:30 am
blatham wrote:
Well, on occasion, you and I disagree.

As Winston Churchill so aptly observed, 'When two people agree, one of them is superfluous.' This is from memory, so maybe not an accurate quote. Whatever Churchill's exact phrasing , I'm glad to see that neither you nor I are superfluous.

blatham wrote:
The rationale has been 'cultural protection', that is, to promote Canadian cultural identity in the face of the huge inflow of communications from down south. We have, too, a similar notion internally, where French Canadian culture has certain 'protections' against the larger English media. I'm quite happy with both sets of values/regulations, certainly in their intent.

For my own understanding, let me probe how far you are willing to take this position. If, for purposes of 'cultural protection', your government made it illegal for Canadiens to read foreign newspapers, or to watch live streams of the Fox programs over the internet, would you support such a move? And if you opposed it -- as I expect you would -- what's the relevant difference between newspapers and websites on the one hand, and TV channels on the other hand?

blatham wrote:
Then Conrad Black (Hollinger) begain buying up Canadian newspapers [...]You know something of the fellow, I'm sure.

You're flattering me, but I don't. This is the first time I hear of him. But judging by a quick Google search, Conrad Black is a Canadian. This suggests that a ban of foreign newspaper ownership, if Canada has one, didn't keep him from acquiring monopoly power. Arguably, it even supported him by erecting a barrier of entry against foreign competition, including liberal foreign competition with reasonably deep pockets, such as the New York Times Company.

blatham wrote:
That would be perhaps ok, if such a shift was merely the consequence of a pendulum swing in general viewpoint. But only a numbskull would argue that one.

Very well, I must be a numbskull then. No offense taken, as I'm sure none was intended.

blatham wrote:
You have a far greater faith in the marketplace than do I when speaking of economic/social improvements.

Perhaps so, but that's not the point I'm trying to argue at the moment. My point is that I have much less faith than you do in the concept that smart people like yourself ought to tell dumb people like me which TV channel to watch. The concept has been tried in the eastern part of my country for 40 years, and has rightly been abandoned as highly defective. We don't miss it one bit.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2004 07:30 am
Quote:
Which is why, when that producer called me to debate on Fox, I did jump ?- but not before urging her to phone the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) to confirm that the channel was not "banned'' in Canada, not even close.

Indeed, the way it works is, cable and/or satellite companies that wish to carry foreign signals here must apply to do so ?- and, at that point, none had applied to import Fox News.

What's more, as of November 2000, CanWest Global has held the licence for Fox News Canada. That would be a digital hybrid along the lines of the Rogers and Shaw Cable-owned MSNBC here, which carries mostly U.S. content with some recycled CPAC programming in the off-hours.

Why Global hasn't launched Fox News Canada is a mystery. Last week, company spokesperson Geoffrey Elliott said he was "not in a position to comment'' on the matter. My guess, and it's pure speculation, is that CanWest has too much debt to deal with such an endeavour. That said, last week it did announce it will launch CoolTV, a digi-net devoted to jazz.

But those of you who want Fox ?- and aren't willing to risk going the illegal satellite dish route ?- need not despair. That's because, in June, the Canadian Cable Television Association (CCTA) applied to the CRTC to add Fox News to the list of non-Canadian channels eligible for digital carriage here. The CCTA also wants to import HBO, Showtime and other popular U.S. cable services, mostly to hang on to customers who are hooking up to those black market dishes.



Well, seems like a non-issue then. The rest is just leftist jibber-jabber.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2004 07:38 am
Not quite. There was an application disapproval.

The notion of 'ban' is typically inaccurate Fox, of course.

Here ya go, have fun... http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/welcome.htm
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2004 07:51 am
And as to replacing George Bush...duh...

Quote:
Fifty-three former US diplomats today accuse the White House of sacrificing America's credibility in the Arab world - and the safety of its diplomats and soldiers - because of the Bush administration's support for the Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon.

The strongly worded rebuke, which paid tribute to last week's broadside from more than 50 former British diplomats against the government's policy in Iraq, marked a rare public display of dissent for state department personnel.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1208914,00.html
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2004 07:54 am
Why Bush is likely to ignore letter...

Quote:
The letter to President Bush by former American diplomats complaining about US policy towards Israel and the Palestinians is unlikely to have much of an effect on the White House.

The letter objects to US support for Sharon's Gaza plan

The influence of the current State Department on the Bush administration is debatable. The influence of former diplomats is minimal.

And the writers of the letter have a problem in that several of them are connected to a lobby group active in Middle East affairs, often as a voice for the Palestinians.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3682825.stm
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2004 08:00 am
McGentrix wrote:
Quote:
The CCTA also wants to import HBO, Showtime and other popular U.S. cable services[/b], mostly to hang on to customers who are hooking up to those black market dishes.


Well, seems like a non-issue then. The rest is just leftist jibber-jabber.

Upon re-reading the quote, it strikes me that satellite dishes apparently need to be purchased on the black market in Canada, suggesting they are illegal. Is this correct? And if so, is the reason for this "cultural protection" too? And if so, why is a culture that needs this kind of protection worth protecting? This is getting stranger and stranger.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2004 08:03 am
"several of them"...

And I like your thinking here McG. Say, where there might be a hypothetical letter supporting Bush policies, written by a group of former American diplomats, several of whom are 'connected' to a lobby group active in Middle East affairs, often as a voice for Israel...that'd be clearly ignorable.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2004 08:06 am
Not anything necessarily objective in this...but it's a bit of good news for the troops in the white hats...

Quote:
Warren Buffett, the world's second-richest man, announced that he would help Senator Kerry's campaign to oust George Bush. Mr Buffett, who is worth about $40bn (£22.6bn), said he disagreed profoundly with Mr Bush's tax cuts for rich people like him. Mr Buffett said: "He [Bush] just has a different political philosophy than I do."

Mr Buffett is perhaps the most powerful business leader in the world. His company, Berkshire Hathaway, owns large chunks of huge US firms, including Coca-Cola.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=517925
0 Replies
 
 

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