0
   

Let's talk about replacing GWBush in 2004.

 
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2004 02:15 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
The most important paragraph from the above post.
**********
"Yet, except by sheer luck, these interceptors will not be able to shoot down enemy missiles. Or, to put it more precisely, Bush is starting to deploy very expensive weapons without the slightest bit of evidence that they have any chance of working."

**********
Bush has gone mad! He's blowing money like a drunken sailor, and nobody is stopping this crazy person.

That is, of course, the most important paragraph to anyone with an unthinking hatred of Bush. For people who actually want to understand these issues and think about them, I've offered a couple of important paragraphs from a different source.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2004 03:42 pm
georgeob1
Agreed the problems we face around the world today are the direct result of European colonialism and the raping of the rest of the world. However, that in no way justifies the actions of this administration regarding Iraq.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2004 03:50 pm
au1929 wrote:
georgeob1
Agreed the problems we face around the world today are the direct result of European colonialism and the raping of the rest of the world. .


Yes, indeed: if the 13 colonies were still British ... :wink:
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2004 08:01 pm
giggle, Walter
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2004 08:42 pm
Touché, Walter ... nicely done. Laughing
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2004 10:29 pm
More lies:

http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=2607611


Quote:
RUMSFELD DISHONESTY CAUGHT ON FILM: The most vivid display of the Administration's widening credibility gap came when CBS's Bob Schieffer asked Rumsfeld "If Iraq did not have WMD, why did they pose an immediate threat to this country?" Rumsfeld retorted, "You and a few other critics are the only people I've heard use the phrase 'immediate threat.' I didn't...It's become kind of folklore that that's what happened." Schieffer repeated his question but Rumsfeld challenged the reporter saying, "If you have any citations, I'd like to see 'em." At that point, NYT columnist Tom Friedman read Rumsfeld his own words, pointing out that the Defense Secretary had told Congress on 9/19/02 that "No terrorist state poses a greater or more immediate threat to the security of our people" than Iraq and that "some have argued that the nuclear threat from Iraq is not imminent [but] I would not be so certain." According to the transcript of the show, Rumsfeld replied "Mm-hmm. It--my view of--of the situation was that he--he had--we--we believe, the best intelligence that we had and other countries had and that--that we believed and we still do not know--we will know."

American Progress has posted a video clip of this exchange.


http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=6228#1
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2004 10:39 pm
Robert Novak and John McCain are not happy with Bush.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/novak/cst-edt-novak151.html
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2004 10:42 pm
Enjoyed Rummies response; "Mm-hmm. It--my view of--of the situation was that he--he had--we--we believe, the best intelligence that we had and other countries had and that--that we believed and we still do not know--we will know." He's beginning to use the same language skills as his boss. LOL
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2004 10:44 pm
LOL c.i. Me too!
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2004 11:30 pm
Walter,

A quick witted and amusing response, but one which ignores the basic historical facts of the matter. It would be more persuasive if you would in any way attempt to address the argument I laid out. You have not done that. The United States had no role whatever in the dismemberment of the Ottoman Empire, or the colonial exploitation of most of the Moslem world and Africa south of the Sahara. That was the exclusive bequest of Europe. Since WWII the United States exerted considerable pressure on the UK and France to let go of their Empires, and has done far more than Europe to promote the economic and political development of Arab states - a difficult chore during the Cold War. It was France that fought bitter colonial wars in Syria and Algeria, not the United Satates; France and Britain that invaded Suez in 1956, not the United States. Britain that (before WWII) initiated the intervention in Iranian governance, not the United States. During the last 45 years we have certainly failed to fully clean up the mess you left. However, considering the more than a century you spent creating it, perhaps it is a bit early to accuse us of failure.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2004 10:06 am
Well george...as it is a bit difficult to go back in time and repair the faults of others long ago, there is naught else but to avoid big screwing up in the present. Unless, of course, one is just seeking to avoid all blame and responsibility. Every political figure, and every state, arrives in a positition of power and a situation which has been determined by events preceding.

Have you read Forster's Passage To India? That British attitude of superiority and entitlement to empire, and its assumptions that the bad things in the world were the consequence of other folks' failings which would be righted only by the further spread of Britishness, are all reflected in your comments on America's role in the world.

Lola

Thanks kindly for the Rumsfeld piece. These guys really seem to believe they can keep right on lying through their teeth and still stand as paradigm examples of moral rectitude and proper democratic governance. Despicable people. Goering would be at home in their company.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2004 10:46 am
from the new PM of Spain...
Quote:
"Mr Blair and Mr Bush must do some reflection _ you can't organise a war with lies,"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/spain/article/0,2763,1170284,00.html
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2004 11:00 am
blatham wrote:
Well george...as it is a bit difficult to go back in time and repair the faults of others long ago, there is naught else but to avoid big screwing up in the present. Unless, of course, one is just seeking to avoid all blame and responsibility. Every political figure, and every state, arrives in a positition of power and a situation which has been determined by events preceding.

Have you read Forster's Passage To India? That British attitude of superiority and entitlement to empire, and its assumptions that the bad things in the world were the consequence of other folks' failings which would be righted only by the further spread of Britishness, are all reflected in your comments on America's role in the world.


There was much that was good in the British Empire, and the attitudes that Forster expressed were as often focused on that (such as the elimmination of the slave trade) as they were on its failings. No doubt that mixture of foolishness and wisdom persists today.

However in the present instance our European "allies" (Brits excepted) are too often choosing to lay low, harvesting the benefit of the actions of others, but taking none of the risks. I doubt very much that the international legal structures they prize so much will protect them from the distemper of their Islamist neighbors. Appeasing bullies is generally not a wise strategy.

This alone wouldn't so exorcise me, however, to, in addition, endure the carping, back biting, and criticism that goes with their self-serving rationalizations is a bit much.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2004 11:07 am
G W Bush, Los Angeles, Calif., March 3, 2004


huh?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2004 11:15 am
Sure there was much good about the Brit empire. Or the Roman empire, for that matter (the orgies, the snow carried down from mountain peaks to chill the rich folks' drinks).

And there's much good about the US presence in the world. None of which is relevant, except as defensiveness, denial, bullying, and self interest when the subject under discussion is what the US is fukking up on.
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2004 11:24 am
blatham wrote:
from the new PM of Spain...
Quote:
"Mr Blair and Mr Bush must do some reflection _ you can't organise a war with lies,"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/spain/article/0,2763,1170284,00.html

Translation: "Terrorists keep up the good work!" Sad
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2004 11:26 am
Scrat wrote:
blatham wrote:
from the new PM of Spain...
Quote:
"Mr Blair and Mr Bush must do some reflection _ you can't organise a war with lies,"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/spain/article/0,2763,1170284,00.html

Translation: "Terrorists keep up the good work!" Sad



You really think, he wanted to call Blair and Bush 'terrorists'?
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2004 11:29 am
Scrat wrote:
blatham wrote:
from the new PM of Spain...
Quote:
"Mr Blair and Mr Bush must do some reflection _ you can't organise a war with lies,"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/spain/article/0,2763,1170284,00.html

Translation: "Terrorists keep up the good work!" Sad

Interesting. I would have said the translation is: "You ought to fight the war that has actually been declared on you (the one on Al Quaeda and the Talibans) rather than the war you felt most comfortable fighting (the one on Iraq)."
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2004 11:47 am
Quote:
...German Christian Democrat Freidbert Pflueger, told BBC Radio that the new Spanish government was engaged in "appeasement" of terrorism.

Al-Qaeda appeared to have succeeded in changing the government of one European country through terror.

"That must never happen again," he said.

Quote:
"Revising our positions on Iraq after terrorist attacks would be to admit that terrorists are stronger and that they are right," (Polish Prime Minister Leszek) Miller told reporters in Tarnow.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2004 11:51 am
Quote:
But a long-standing friend of the US, the German Christian Democrat Freidbert Pflueger, told BBC Radio that the new Spanish government was engaged in "appeasement" of terrorism.


Yes, our conservatives are nice.
0 Replies
 
 

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