Let's talk about replacing GWBush in 2004.

Yes we musn't upset the Islamist Fascists of the world, lest they get angry and retaliate against us. Certainly we should avoid any intervention to support the development of modern secular governments among them: it just makes the gangsters who formerly ruled and the fanatics who wish to take over angry, and leads to more trouble for us. Instead we should just wait for the evental reform of this system, hoping for the spontaneous eruption of tolerance, political and economic freedom and friendship with the West. Examples of such transitions can be found in .....

Well who cares about examples anyway.

What were the lessons of 20th century history ?

George
Answer the question. Why did this administration attack Iraq? What was the justification? If another nation had done the same the thing would we be in the UN screaming our head off that it was a criminal act? Sure now of course we can't leave and must complete the nation building which hopefully will stick. However, that does not change the fact that our young are the sacrificial lambs in Bush's war.

The young pay the price in all wars, offensive or defensive.

The young people of Britain in 1938 - 1945 paid the price for the greed of their political leaders at Versailles in 1919 and for the lassitude oif their successors in the mid '30s while Hitler grew to power. (The French made all the same mistakes. but took a pass with Hitler, saving their energy and blood for a ghastly attempt to reconquor their lost empire after WWII).

The reasons for the intervention in Iraq were well described by the administration before they acted:
1. To create a modern secular and relatively liberal government in a key part of the Islamic world and in a place more likely than others to permit such an entity to thrive. This as a beneficial alternative to Islamist readicalism for a Moslem world suddenly confronted with its own backwardness and in crisis everywhere.
2. To remove a gangster regime known to be involved in the trade of modern weapons, and feared to be or become a source for terrorists.
3. To reduce our dependency on a rotten regime in Saudi Arabia, likely to fall during the next two decades.
4. To prevent the further proliferation of WMD and to provide an example for other nations contemplating this.
5. To remove a cruel tyrant from the backs of the Iraqi people.
6. To reduce the influence of radical Islamists in the Mideast.

Our attempt to get UN Security Council agreement was foiled by the intransigence of France and, to a lesser extent Germany. The effect was to trivialize our reasons, reducing them to the WMD matter, and to exacerbate the divisions between the U.S. and the nations of Old Europe, which wish to keep their heads in the sand as long as possible - a trait they have exhibited for over a century.

I always wonder, why you "forget" the other opposing Security Council members, permanent as well as the temporary ones, who opposed.

I don't forget them at all Walter. I really should have added Russia to the list, but the others were merely following the lead of these three. Without them our resolutions would certainly have prevailed. Do you dispute that?

No :wink:

george loves books. george would not love Hans Blix's new book. george would be discomfited.

Kafka's personal nightmare was - at least in the case of his character Gregor Samsa - to awaken and find he had been traansformed into a large beetle.

Mine would be to find that I was Hans Blix.

and mine...to awaken as Laura Bush

George
You noted six reasons for our invasion of Iraq. None of which were the excuses or reasons given by Bush and company for the invasion. It was the alleged WMD's that Iraq had. You do remember Powell's plea to the UN.

au,

You are incorrect. All were articulated quite clearly. It is true that once they made the decision (in retrosperct, an error) to seek Security Council approval the dialogue was reduced to that.

George
Mine would to wake up as George Bush. The shame of it would probably cause me to commit suicide.

A good one ! (I had complacently thought you wouldn't be able to trump my Kafka bit - I was wrong.)

George
The stated excuse was WMD's. In fact the original justification was that Saddam would not allow UN inspectors in country. Since that was no longer an impediment there was no justification for the invasion. Bush was determined to invade and nothing that Saddam did or did not do would stop him.

But AU, the God Annointed One Himself stated that the reason we invaded was because "He wouldn't let the inspectors in, so we had no choice but to invade." How dare you question the new Messiah! That's sacrilege. Truth is what the administration says it is. Any dissenting opinions are blasphemy, remember?

Another false God.

Tell that to georgeob, this forum's answer to Cotton Hill!

Bizarre story. Damn.

Not only blasphemous but unpatriotic!

Nuclear inspectors condemn Iran

Iran temporarily freezes inspections

Saturday, March 13, 2004 Posted: 3:21 PM EST (2021 GMT)


VIENNA, Austria -- The International Atomic Energy Agency adopted a resolution Saturday criticizing Iran for hiding nuclear activities, although it acknowledged the Islamic republic's increasing openness in the U.N. inspection process.
A senior Bush administration official called the decision "very significant" and "a big win" for the United States.
An Iranian official, saying his country's nuclear program is "exclusively peaceful," issued a statement indicating that the United States was trying to impose its will on the IAEA.
Iran announced a freeze for now of U.N. inspections to show its displeasure with the resolution.
The resolution said declarations made by Iran about its program in October "did not amount to the complete and final picture of Iran's past and present nuclear programs."
The board deplored Iran's omissions in an October letter that was to have provided "the full scope of Iranian nuclear activities" and a "complete centrifuge R&D [research and development) chronology."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/03/13/iran.nuclear/index.html

Isn't it odd Bush designated three nations in his axis of evil speech. Of the three the only one that did not have or was working on atomic weaponry [Although Iran denies it} was the one we invaded. He couldn't even get that right.